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IN THE FINAL STAGES OF EDITING A series of talks launched by Peter Brooke, Secretary of State for Northern in Ireland, which began in April 1991, and were carried on intermittently by Brooke and his successor, Patrick Mayhew, until November 1992.
Source material
UK Government Internal Record of Bilateral Meetings
Details
Minutes of Bilateral Meetings held in the National Archives:
Bilateral Meetings with the SDLP - CJ4/9320
Bilateral Meetings with the Unionist Delegations - CJ4/9319 and 9320
Bilateral Meetings with the Alliance Party Delegation - CJ4/9320
Information from the National Archives is reproduced under the Open Governement Licence, https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/.
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Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Timetable for Coming Weeks Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Opening Statement: Firm Action Required from Secretary of State Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Clarification has been duly given.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Secretary of State to Convey Details of Meeting to the Unionist Delegation Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting was adjourned without further comment.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Timetable for Starting Talks and Appointing the Chairman Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State has laid out his thoughts on the timeline as requested.] Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Accept the Workplan for Strand One Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State said that he would tell the other parties that the workplan had now been agreed. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Marsh In attendance Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Neeson Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Minister of State Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Fell Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Pilling Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Thomas Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr McNeill Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Secretariat Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Mr Hume Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr McGrady Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hendron Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Marsh Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
In attendance Mr Pawson Tuesday April 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[This Committee has been created to represent the work of Mr Brooke's inner team during the negotiations.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[This Committee represents the work of Mr Brooke's inner team during the negotiations.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The agenda is taken to each of the first three bilateral meetings in the same form.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Agenda for Preliminary Bilateral Meetings Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Agenda for a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the SDLP Held in Parliament Buildings on 30 April 1991 Tuesday April 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Agenda for Preliminary Bilateral Meetings Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that he felt the meeting had covered all that needed attention. Was there anything further the SDLP wished to say? Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr McGrady asked whether the delegation's rooms in Parliament Buildings were at their disposal any time, whether they would be secure when unoccupied. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
22. Concluding the meeting, the Secretary of State said that in terms of the total process being a success it was a sine qua non that a smooth transition from the first to the second strand be achieved. Assuming that it was desirable to follow an... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusion of Meeting with SDLP on 30 April 1991 Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He was deeply appreciative of the Secretary of State's efforts in enabling the talks to start and he hoped that the spirit generated in the process so far would sustain the participants. The Secretary of State replied that he was grateful for this, but... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1. Practical Arrangements Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Mr Hume then raised what he described as a difficult point. Despite the security outside the building the SDLP delegation had been confronted by a loyalist "headcase" complete with posters. This would be the image carried in the world media and... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1(a) Parking Arrangements Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State, concluding the exchange, again expressed his distress and said that the SDLP's reaction would sharpen up the authorities' efforts to prevent a repetition. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
4. The Secretary of State asked whether the SDLP were content with the practical arrangements; it was the intention to see everyone properly serviced and protected. PUS added that there would inevitably be the background details to be sorted out. Mr... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1(b) Media Arrangements Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said he was content with this, Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1(b) Media Arrangements - Exception Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State is content with this arrangement as is clear from Paragraph 23 below.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1(b) Media Arrangements - Photo Opportunity Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume indicated his assent. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting moves on to the second item on the agenda.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
2. Procedural Issues Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
2(a) Procedural Issues - Timing of Meetings Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume saw no problems in any of this. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
2(b) Procedural Issues - Adjournments Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: no objection is raised.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
2(c) Procedural Issues - Strand 1 Agenda Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No objection is raised.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
2(d) Procedural Issues - Minutes Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No objection is raised.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting now turns to the next item on the agenda.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Key Issues for Discussion and 4. The Order in which they might be Addressed Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Key Issues for Discussion - SDLP Perspective Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Key Issues for Discussion - SDLP Perspective Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
16. The Secretary of State said that it would be helpful to know at some stage the areas in which the SDLP thought agreement would be easier. Mr Hume, supported by Mr McGrady, replied immediately that security was at the heart of the problem and would... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No decision is made on any of the proposed amendments, only that these items remain on the agenda while the Secretary of State consults the other parties.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
12. In response to a question from the Secretary of State, Mr Hume explained that the essence of the European model was a situation in which nations retained their differences and identities but worked together. The Minister of State queried the... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Key Issues for Discussion - UK Government Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
14. Mr Hume replied immediately that the list represented a number of presumptions and appeared to be on the same lines as previous failed initiatives. The Secretary of State emphasised that he was not pre-judging any issues, and that he had some... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. General Approach in Initial Plenary Sessions Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume confirmed that he was content with this, and that the SDLP's opening statement would cover items 1 and 2 on their suggested agenda. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6. Venue for North/South Strand Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6(a) Venue for North/South Strand - Dublin Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The SDLP had, he repeated, accepted the most difficult location in Northern Ireland for the first strand, and events earlier that morning had proved their assessment to be right. Mr Hendron added that coming to Parliament Buildings had been a big... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Nonetheless, in answer to a question, Mr Hume acknowledged that others might have different ideas about the second strand. He asked the Secretary of State what the Unionist view might be. The Secretary of State, observing that the Unionists would... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6(b) Venue for North/South Strand - Armagh Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
19. The Secretary of State observed that if the SDLP did not understand why the Unionists wished the second strand to take place in London the problem would be of a different nature. Mr Hume said that the SDLP were prepared to accept Parliament... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6. Brooke Proposal: Venue for North/South Strand - Dublin and London Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He felt that this was a pretty reasonable approach. If however it proved unacceptable the Secretary of State could come back to him. The only set of negotiations so far which had made progress (those leading up to the Anglo-Irish Agreement) had been... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
(Mr Hume and Mr Mallon consulted on this and Mr Mallon appeared to say no.) The Minister of State asked what the SDLP position would be if the Irish Government felt a combination of Dublin and London would be satisfactory. Mr Hendron observed that the... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
20. The Secretary of State, summing up, observed that the location of the second strand was clearly a central issue. Any location could be defended. The heart of the issue was to find a way in which all could agree. He was concerned to move... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State to put the SDLP Proposal to the Unionists Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State agrees.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6(c) Venue for North/South Strand - Discussions to be Confidential Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The SDLP indicated assent. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion of this agenda item is closed.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1(c) Practical Arrangements - Security of Delegate Rooms and Access to the Building Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: There is no objection to these proposals.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1(d) Statement to the Press Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said that he too would confirm that the meeting had taken place and that it had covered housekeeping matters and arrangements for the talks including a possible agenda. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He would make a point of seeing the Press after the meeting in order to provide them with images other than the unfortunate ones with which they had been confronted at the beginning. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting concluded.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice noted this point. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
1(e) Media arrangements - daily briefings for the Press Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State noted the points made by Dr Alderdice and Mr Neeson and said that he expected that those involved might come to take a more relaxed view as time passed but might be uncomfortable with too close a level of media attention at... Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
That said, some caution was advisable in the early stages of discussions. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
1(e) Media arrangements - photo opportunity Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice confirmed that he felt that it would be important to allow the media to have this opportunity. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice said that he saw this as a very reasonable proposition. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
2(c) Minutes Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: No objection is raised.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
4(a) Opportunity for parties to relate informally Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
4(b) Maintain brisk pace Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice said that he noted the Secretary of State's point and was happy that the Secretary of State recognised that there was a need for some degree of pace. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
In response to a question from Mr Neeson, the Secretary of State confirmed that it was his intention to let the parties have the checklist, simultaneously, before the plenary meetings began. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
6. Location of North/South talks - discussion should be kept confidiential. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State noted that confidentiality at this stage was of extreme importance and that achieving agreement on the location of the second strand talks was a critical part of getting to that strand. Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
6. Location of North/South talks Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so agreed.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Minister of State Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
PUS Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Fell Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Pilling Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Thomas Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr McNeill Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Rodell Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
In attendance Mr Pawson Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
UUP [sic - in fact the list that will follow includes members of both Unionist parties in attendance at the meeting.] Mr Molyneaux Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Nicholson Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Cunningham Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Rev McCrea Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Agenda for Preliminary Bilateral Meetings Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Preliminary Bilateral Meeting with the Unionist Delegation on Friday 3 May 1991 Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2. Mr Molyneaux made a pre-prepared statement in which he reminded the Secretary of State that when he had met the two Unionist leaders about a month after his arrival in Northern Ireland he had told them that he intended to be straight speaking in his... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. Dr Paisley endorsed Mr Molyneaux's remarks. He said that the two parties would be speaking with one voice during the talks. He wished, however, to clarify one point. The Unionists were attending the talks because they had been convened by the... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1. Practical Arrangements Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley had, that morning, been locked out of both his room and his toilet and none of the DUP's word-processing equipment was working. Dr Paisley added a complaint about being asked to show his pass when he entered the building. Responding to this... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The concerns of the Unionist delegations are listened to.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(b) Allowances and Financial Arrangements Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
- how much were the secretaries to be paid? The Secretary of State drew attention to the Notes for Delegates which had been circulated to the parties on the previous afternoon. The DUP, however, did not appear to have any copies of this document,... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux then expressed concern that if the Unionists were to want to draft a document, such as a Bill of Rights, they would require expert advice and asked if thought could be given as to how this could be financed. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(b) Allowances and Financial Arrangements - Legal Advice Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley thought this very reasonable. Mr Nicholson thought the figure was too low but was satisfied by the assurance that consideration would be given to requests for additional assistance. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
NB: (At this point, Mr Robinson announced that he had now read the Notes for Delegates and that it said nothing about payments for secretarial support. Mr Pilling went in search of further information). 6. In the meantime, Mr Nicholson pointed out... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(c) Telephones Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so decided.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(b) Allowances and Financial Arrangements - Secretarial Support Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley thought this figure very low, he concluded that the Government must be very mean towards its secretaries and said that the DUP would in any case require three secretaries, not two, because the MPs had constituency work to deal with. Mr... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
PUS and Mr Robinson to Meet Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: We assume this offer to meet was accepted.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley noted that the allowances for delegates were governed by a five hour rule, did this mean five hours away from home or five hours in Parliament Buildings? Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(b) Allowances and Financial Arrangements - Allowances for Delegates Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves on to media arrangements.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(d) Media Arrangements Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's note: Discussion moves on to consider media arrangements.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so decided.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(d) Media Arrangements - Photo Opportunity Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Paisley said they were not because it would set a precedent for strand two. Mr Molyneaux concurred saying that they had come to talk not to provide entertainment. Mr McCrea said that in forty years they would all be judged by what they had achieved... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2. Procedural Matters Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(a) Timing of Meetings Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that Mr Maginnis had asked for a meeting of the Northern Ireland Committee on 16 May to discuss Fair Employment. Mr Hume, Mr Molyneaux and he were now seeking a meeting of the Committee to discuss the privatisation of NIE and Mr Needham... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(a) Timing of Meetings - Bank Holiday and Somme Commemoration Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
This was agreed. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves to the next item on the agenda.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(b) Adjournments Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson said that there could be occasions when parties wanted adjournments but did not want to publicise the reason. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(b) Adjournments - Parties Leaving the Room Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley pointed out that in the European Parliament any delegation could call a 10 or 20 minute adjournment. The Secretary of State said that he was not happy about the prospect of proceedings being brought to a halt simply for a party's... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(b) Adjournments - Majority Vote Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State to Consult on Majority Vote for Adjournment Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so left.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State offers confirmation.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(c) Length of Speeches Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State to Consult the Other Parties Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that there was a great danger of getting nowhere if the talks were allowed to become a free for all. Mr Robinson agreed, saying that many people round the table would have the ability to recount the history of Ireland since Brian Boru... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He would endeavour to settle this question before the first plenary. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(d) Minutes Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that discussing the minutes had been the first business of the day during the Atkins Conference; the Secretary of State asked how long this had taken and Dr Paisley said that it had not usually taken very long at all. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2(d) Minutes - Possibility to Speak Off Record Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. Key Issues Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves to Item 3 on the Agenda.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreement seems to be reached on minutes and discussion moves on.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3(a) Key Issues - Unionist Position Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Joint Unionist Agenda/Programme of Work for Strand 1 Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that the Unionists' position couldn't be clearer; he asked which items would take the longest to discuss. Mr Robinson suggested item 4 (the Administration's modus operandi). Dr Paisley drew attention to the fact that the... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3(b) Key Issues - Government Position Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He said that, subject to the outcome of the meeting, he would be circulating this list over the weekend in the form of an aide memoire. Dr Paisley pointed out that the Secretary of State had not included in his list any mention of how the acceptability... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux commented that the Secretary of State's list seemed to underestimate the significance of the issues which appeared as Phase A of the Unionists' proposed agenda. Mr Robinson said that perhaps the Secretary of State thought that he had... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. Dr Paisley said that the nature of the test of acceptability was a real problem. He understood that the Republic of Ireland might need to hold a referendum in relation to the replacement of the Anglo-Irish Agreement on Articles 2 and 3 but it was... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4(a) Reiteration of 26 March Statement - Endorsement of the Final Package Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4(b) Endorsement by the Irish Government Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4(c) Articles 2 and 3 as a Hindrance to Progress Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Minister of State said that this was an issue of substance and it was right that it should be on the agenda. [Editor's Note: The Government delegation does not endorse the Unionist delegation, but it is agreed that it should form part of the agenda.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This statement is agreed by all present.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Handling of the Initial Plenary Sessions Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5(a) and 5(b) Party Statements Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State inquired whether the general proposal was acceptable. [Editor's Note: Although this statement is not explicitly answered in the affirmative, the implication is that the proposal is acceptable.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State warned that this was a new precondition. Mr Robinson responded that this was not a precondition to talks but a precondition to progress. Dr Paisley reiterated his position and emphasised that the day that Irish Government made it... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux said that the Unionist delegation were trying to be helpful and to demonstrate the strength of their feeling on this question. He also reiterated his warning that the time needed to discuss the items listed as Phase A should not be... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreement is reached and discussion moves on to the next item on the agenda.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6. Venue for Strand 2 Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6(a) Unionist Position - London Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley added that it was the British Government who were convening the talks and it was they who should host them. If the talks were held in Dublin then the Secretary would not be able to chair them nor guarantee their confidentiality nor the... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
22. The Secretary of State said that he had had a similar conversation with the SDLP who had insisted on the second strand being held in Dublin. He understood the Unionists' arguments about Articles 2 and 3 but they would also understand that the Irish... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(a) Unionist position - Possibility of Meeting Elsewhere Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6(b) Government Suggestion - Armagh then Alternating Between London and Dublin Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
20. Mr Robinson said that if talks were held in Dublin then those who attended would be Dublin's guests. Rev McCrea pointed out that in his letter of 14 March the Secretary of State has said 'I am willing to convene talks'; Gerry Collins was not the... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
21. Mr Molyneaux said that the Unionists had already made a number of concessions to Dublin. In October 1987, when Mr King had told them that he could not give them an undertaking that he would consider an alternative to the Anglo-Irish Agreement... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
23. Mr Robinson said that Unionists had traditionally taken the position that because of Articles 2 and 3 they would not meet the Irish Government until structures existed which allowed them to do so as equals. In the present circumstances it was a... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that for the last twenty years everything that had happened in Northern Ireland had been a concession to the SDLP. If they were not prepared to go to their own capital city where several of them had taken the oath of allegiance there... Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6(c) The question of the Venue of Strand 2 Needing to be Resolved Before Strand 1 Talks Could Commence. Friday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusion of Meeting with SDLP 30 April 1991 Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
26. The Secretary of State said that he respected the Unionist position but they too were responsible for making the venue a condition of the talks proceedings. The Irish Government were the government of a sovereign state and it did not seem... Friday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusion of Meeting with Alliance Party on 30 April 1991 Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Time to Reflect Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that the two Unionist parties would be discussing their position immediately after the meeting and would be in touch with the Secretary of State if they had anything to communicate. [Editor's Note: There is agreement that there is no... Friday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Mrs Rodgers was not present at the previous meeting.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr DJR Hill Mr Hallet Also present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr Hendron Mrs Rodgers Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Location of Strand 2 Talks: Position of Parties on 3 May Friday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State presents this summary to each of the parties on 7 May, verbally if not in writing.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Location of Strand 2 Talks: Position of Parties on 3 May Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Location of Strand 2 Talks: Conclusion of Meeting with SDLP on 3 May Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
4. Mr Hume said that he was becoming increasingly annoyed about successive Unionist spokesmen briefing the media, both about the venue problem and about their wish to have Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution removed. Mr John Taylor was now... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Concerns About Meeting in Stormont Should Be Kept Out of the Media Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
7. Mr Hume and Mr Mallon replied that while they had made such remarks in private conversation with Unionists, they had said nothing to the media. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
8. The Secretary of State said he understood that the essence of the Unionist position derived from Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution. As long as those Articles remained in force, Unionists considered that it was impossible for them to... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
European Location Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Refinement of the SDLP Position Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Resolution of the Impasse Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Mr Hume agreed.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that the problem seemed pretty intractable. The SDLP's position was robustly that the talks should be in Ireland, with Dublin or Armagh as possible locations, because of the symbolism and the practical reality that they were... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Dr Mawhinney asked what the SDLP were prepared to accept by way of alternation. Mr Hume replied that any sensible arrangement would be acceptable, if the talks lasted 4 weeks, 2 could be in London and 2 in Dublin. If it would help, the SDLP would still... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusion of Meeting to Allow Further Consultation Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: These conclusions form the basis of the next meeting.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeting with SDLP on 3 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Location for Strand 2 Talks: Update on SDLP Position Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State reports an update on the SDLP position.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr DJR Hill Mr Hallett Also Present Mr Pawson UUP Mr Molyneaux Mr Smyth Mr Cunningham DUP Mr Paisley Mr McCrea Mr Robinson Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Smyth Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr DJR Hill Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Hallett Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. Mr Molyneaux asked about the SDLP and Alliance positions. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of SDLP and Alliance Positions Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This was merely an update on the positions as laid out that morning.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Position on a European Location Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Location of Strand 2 Talks: Position of Parties on 3 May Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State agreed that it would not be good for Northern Ireland the location to be moved to Europe. Nor was it desirable on practical or expenditure grounds. He was looking for a location which was neutral in symbolic terms. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Mr Molyneaux asked about the Dublin Government's position. The Secretary of State said that they would prefer some meetings in Ireland but were essentially looking to him to resolve the issue. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6. The Secretary of State said that the SDLP and the Alliance had put it to him that if it proved impossible to resolve this issue, there would be little scope for resolving other more substantive issues. He had told them that this issue was different... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Confidentiality and the Media Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux agreed on the desirability of keeping the discussions confidential. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. Mr Paisley said that there was no prospect of progress if the Dublin Government and the SDLP insisted on their position. The dispute concerned a part of the United Kingdom. Where better than to resolve a UK problem than in the UK capital. Unionists... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. Mr Molyneaux said that his impression was that everyone would agree to London except the SDLP. It was not a question of losing face. The SDLP had co-operated with the Unionists over Harland and Wolff and had agreed to the meetings taking place in... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
10. The Secretary of State said that it would not be possible for him to tell Dublin that security was a problem. He went there 2 or 3 times a year and it would be insulting to suggest that the Irish Government could not guarantee security. Mr Paisley... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State to Talk to Dublin Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and Mr Robinson asked whether he had had contact over the weekend. The Secretary of State confirmed that he had been in contact with Dublin. [Editor's Note: There is no clear decision regarding the Paisley proposal that the Secretary of State tries to... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Adjournment for Secretary of State to Take Further Soundings Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Alliance Proposal: Meeting of Party Leaders Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
12. Mr Paisley stressed that the Unionists were anxious for the talks to get going, but if it was not possible to reach agreement on this issue it would not be possible to agree on anything. Mr Smyth said that the Unionists were aware of the... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
18. Mr McCrea said that this was an issue on which the Unionists could not move. 19. Mr Paisley said that he could more easily understand the SDLP position if they had expressed difficulty before. But he had made clear 6 weeks ago that the Unionists... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Paisley commented that it would be disastrous at this stage. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Proposal: Party Leader Might Meet Individually Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux interjected that this would only be so if the SDLP showed flexibility. Mr Paisley made clear that he would be happy to meet the Secretary of State at any stage and would remain available. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Although the proposal here is not entirely clear - is Paisley suggesting that the Secretary of State meet party leaders separately or that they meet with each other individually? - we have marked it as accepted because Lord Alderdice's... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
No Plenary Session Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State replied that there certainly could not be one at 2.30 but he did not rule out a plenary session before the end of the afternoon if the current problem could be resolved. This would enable the participants to demonstrate to the... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
23. Mr Paisley made clear that before any plenary session, the Unionist parties would wish to come back to the Secretary of State about the agenda in his letter of 3 May since they were not happy about the order which he had offered to them, or about... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Purely Symbolic Plenary Session Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State indicated that this was all that was likely to be possible. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting adjourned at 12.25, with the understanding that the Secretary of State would hold further meetings with the party leaders. E C HALLETT 7 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeitng with Unionist Delegations on 7 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Position of Parties on the Morning of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Hold Bilaterals with Full Negotiating Teams Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: It was so decided.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: This summary forms the basis of the bilateral meetings on 8 May.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Position of Parties on the Morning of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Alliance Party on 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
3. Dr Alderdice stated that venue was not a matter of principle but of practicalities for his party. They had no preference and were prepared to talk to anybody anywhere. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Suggestion: Hillsborough Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Suggestion: To Use Irish Embassy in London and the British Embassy in Dublin for alternate meetings. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Suggestion: Use Strand 3 Location as Compensation for Strand 2 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance to Continue to Make Inventive Suggestions Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
He confirmed that strand three could start during strand two and was essentially a matter between the two Governments insofar as the Anglo-Irish Agreement was to be affected. It was also recognised that, since nothing would be agreed until everything... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: It was agreed.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Alliance Party on 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State said the UK Government would not solely be represented by him and commented that he had not yet been officially informed of the make up of the Irish delegation though Dr Alderdice suggested he had heard from a Government source... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
On points of clarification from Mr Close and Mr Neeson, the Secretary of State said that he did not see how the process could go forward to plenary sessions without the stage two venue being resolved. He said that any time limit he had on this issue... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Suggestion: Meeting of Party Leaders Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
6. The Secretary of State concluded by thanking the delegation for their positive contribution. He said that while recognising the venue as a problem, he did not regard debate about it as an ill omen for the talks as a whole. He was not pessimistic... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
5. The Minister of State asked the delegation to consider what in a worst case scenario of the process breaking down, a credible argument for other parties would be. Dr Alderdice said in reply that he was astonished that some of the parties were not... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Initially Mr Hurne arrived only with Mr Mallon, Mr Hendron and Mrs Rogers [sic]. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Complaint Regarding Confidentiality Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No further comment is made on this complaint at this stage.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr McGrady Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Haughey Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Feeley [sic] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Gallagher Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Maginness Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Durkan Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The full SDLP delegation joins the meeting. This is reflected in the list of attendees] Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pillin Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Hallett Also... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Position of Parties on the Morning of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusions of Meeting with the SDLP on 8 May at 11.15am Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
4. Mr Hume said that they had stated their position and were holding to it. The public would see it as a reasonable position. Mr Hume said Unionists had claimed that the Secretary of State was opposed to Dublin because of the need to fly participants... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. The Secretary of State said that he had made clear the previous day that the North/South venue had to be resolved now. He asked whether any of Mr Hume's colleagues wished to say anything. Mr Mallon replied that he was "happy enough" with what had been said. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Confirmation of the SDLP Position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6. The Minister of State asked Mr Hume whether the SDLP position was specific to London and Dublin or whether this was shorthand for Great Britain and Ireland. Mr Hume replied that they were specific. 7. The Minister of State asked whether this meant... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
8. Mr Hume confirmed that the SDLP meant "London and Dublin". Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Unionist Representations of the SDLP Position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He repeated that the position was as he had stated at the outset of the meeting. He expressed the hope that "we were not going to have another day like yesterday". Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Inadequate accommodation Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Adjournment Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting is adjourned.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State confirmed that this was his hope also. [Editor's Note: The complaint is noted, and may be behind the decision of the Secretary of State to encourage the parties to bring their full delegations to the bilateral meetings.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The complaint is noted and minuted but no further comment is made at this stage] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Secretariat Mr DJR Hill Mr Rodell In attendance Mr Pawson Joint Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Nicholson Mr Robinson Mr... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Negotiation Team Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State allows the meeting to proceed.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of Meeting with the Unionist Delegations on 8 May at 11.53am Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Delegation Will Only Attend Talks in Dublin in Strand 3 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves on.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Breach of Security: Confidentiality of the Talks Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Position of Parties on the Morning of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux concurred, and explained that the confusion may have arisen from the fact that their position was that they would be prepared to visit Dublin at some stage in strand three other than the finale. The Secretary of State replied that there... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves on.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Dr Paisley asked if there was any indication that the SDLP would accept something other than alternating between London and Dublin. The Secretary of State said that the SDLP had not told him that they would; the Minister of State added that the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Need for New Anglo-Irish Agreement Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. The Secretary of State said that the attempt to find a resolution to the problem of the venue for strand two could not be sustained much longer. Rev McCrea said that nothing new seemed to have emerged from the Secretary of State's meetings that... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Proposal: Meet Outside the UK and ROI Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State pointed out that this proposal had found very few friends on the previous day. Dr Paisley said the talks had now reached an impasse, and that although he detested the idea of going to Europe it was a possible solution and that... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
10. The Secretary of State asked if Dr Paisley's inquiry about the SDLP's attitude to holding the second strand in Belfast implied that the Unionist parties thought this might be a potential solution? Mr Molyneaux said that he had received a message... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
For their part the Unionists had produced a compromise proposal, they did not like it but they would live with it and justify it publicly, it was now for the Secretary of State to put it to the SDLP. Rev McCrea reminded his party leader that the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Adjournment for Lunch Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
15. The meeting concluded at 12.55 pm; for the most part it was conducted in measured tones. It often seemed that the Unionist delegation, with the exception of Rev McCrea, were deliberately restraining themselves and trying to avoid a confrontation.... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr DJ R Hill Mr Hallett Also present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr McGrady Mr Hendron Mr Haughey Mr Feeley... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusions of Meeting with the SDLP on 8 May at 14.45pm Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Position on Europe Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
11. Rev McCrea said that he didn't believe the SDLP when they said they opposed a European venue on grounds of cost, anyone who had seen them at work on District Councils knew they were not concerned about spending public money. What was the 'Great... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
12. Mr Robinson said that the Unionists had now put forward a number of proposals in an attempt to assist the Secretary of State. They had suggested holding the talks in London, they had offered to meet somewhere in Great Britain outside London, they... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. The Minister of State pointed out that there were already rumours that one of Mr Molyneaux's colleagues (Mr John Taylor) was going to put down a Parliamentary Question about the cost of the talks and said that if the Secretary of State were to... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: This is merely a report from an earlier meeting.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The SDLP position is being noted for the record.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. Mr Hume asked whether the other SDLP suggestions had been put to the Unionists. The Secretary of State confirmed that they had but that they had not been accepted. The Minister of State said that the Unionists had asked whether the SDLP would... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Further Clarification of SDLP Position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
7. The Secretary of State said that he was seeking to respect the logic of the positions of all the participants. He asked for the SDLP reaction to holding the second strand in Northern Ireland. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Further Clarification of SDLP Position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Clarification of the Unionist Position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The SDLP were "fed up" with the way in which the last two days had been wasted. The Unionists thought that the Nationalists were out to destroy them but this was not the case. In order to demonstrate this, Mr Hume quoted verbatim a passage from the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Extract from "The SDLP Analysis of the Nature of the Problem" Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
8. Mr Hume said that the passage he had quoted showed that the SDLP saw the problem as essentially a conflict between the two identities. They were not challenging anyone's essential interests. A solution required the agreement of all who lived in the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Further Clarification of SDLP Position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
9. Mr Mallon asked whether the Government Team had raised with Unionists the possibility of alternative Republic of Ireland venues. The Minister of State replied that they had not since they understood the SDLP position to be specific to London and... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
10. The Secretary of State said that he understood the logic of the SDLP position Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
but it nevertheless remained the Unionist view that Articles 2 and 3 were a threat to their position and this had been reinforced by the Irish Supreme Court's Judgement in the McGimpsey case. 11. Mr Hendron interjected that he had understood the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Concessions involved in meeting in Northern Ireland Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: We are closing the earlier suggestions and moving on to consider the Secretary of State's new proposal.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Proposal Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said that this did not appear to meet the Unionist problem regarding a "Dublin deal". 17. Mr Mallon asked for clarification of the proposal. The Minister of State said that the process would involve the Unionists going to Dublin "at some point". Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon said that the proposal did not seem to be acceptable. Strand two involved an essential role for the Irish Government. The Minister of State recognised that the Irish Government might see difficulty. He had put forward the proposal in a spirit... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
12. The Secretary of State said that his purpose was simply to find a solution which was mutually acceptable. His only way of doing so was to act as an honest broker between what were at present mutually exclusive positions. If he was to succeed, all... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
18. Mr Hume said that the Unionist's original problem was with the idea of strand two alternating between Belfast and Dublin. That was why the SDLP had suggested London and Dublin. We seemed to be covering the same ground again. The Minister of State... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Put on Record Resentment at SDLP was Responsible Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
27. The Secretary of State said that he wished to respond first of all to Mr Durkan. He was not trying to apportion blame for the current difficulty. He was merely trying to get out of the impasse. He had had some brisk exchanges with the Unionists in... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Publication of SDLP Text on Unionist Identity Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The proposal is accepted in order to record it as a recommendation of the meeting.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Adjourn and Reconvene Later in the Afternoon Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
It would probably be necessary to consult the Irish Government about the position reached at the end of the day. It might not therefore be possible to convene the next day. It might be better to allow time for reflection and for political leaders to... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
No comments to be made to the press Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Whatever had been said at Ministerial level about the meaning of the "UK Team" point, at meetings between SDLP and NIO officials it had been clear that this was specifically intended to cover the Unionists "going" to Dublin. With regard to the SDLP... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
28. The Secretary of State said that as he had made clear at the meeting that morning, that if the current difficulty was not overcome "we may have to close the shop and go home". This would be very regrettable [sic] since, on the substantive issues to... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Secretary of State replied that it would be difficult to ensure that any such agreement worked in practice. Mr Mallon commented that the SDLP had "their backs to cover as well" and they would certainly do so if necessary. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
33. The Secretary of State concluded by thanking the SDLP for the patience and said that he would return to them before the end of the afternoon. T HALLETT Talks Secretariat Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Adjourn and Reconvene Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[The Government delegation meets with the parties.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeting with the Unionist Delegations on 8 May at 11.53am Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Alliance Party on the Morning of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Chairman bases the next series of meetings on these conclusions.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeting with the SDLP on 8 May at 11.15am Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr May Also Present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Neeson Mr Dickson Mr Morrow Mrs... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr Maguire Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr McGarry Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of Meeting with the Alliance Party on 8 May at 15:55 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State recognised the similarity of the proposition to that which the Alliance Party had been putting forward consistently, and drew attention to the importance that no side should be seen to have ownership. Dr Alderdice acknowledged... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Discipline in Speaking to the Media Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice agreed, but explained that there had clearly been substantial press briefing prior to his delegation going on the record, and that it was important for each side to have confidence that they would not lose out through obeying the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Confidentiality Concerns Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Secretary of State's Summary of the Position on the Afternoon of 8 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Government Proposal to the Parties Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
7. The Secretary of State explained that if the SDLP would not go to Europe and the Unionists would not go to Dublin, then the process was close to the abyss. He believed all parties recognised there was still an opportunity which they would not want... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
12. Dr Alderdice said that he understood the advantages of a delay until Monday, but had serious concerns about the loss of momentum that would entail. However he had made clear his views on the conduct and content of the process at the outset. He was... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Adjournment Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourns.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Adjournment Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourned.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Alliance Party on May at 15:55 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Present Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr T Watson Others Present Mr Pawson Ulster Unionist Party Mr Molyneaux Mr Cunningham Mr... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Logistical Arrangements Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State said he would meet this issue head on. A journalist had data about meetings that had taken place and had approached a member of one of the Unionist delegations to question him on the basis of this information. The data... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Watson Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Maginnis Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Trimble Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Donaldson Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr McGimpsey Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Empey Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Dodds Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Campbell Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Wilson Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Ms Paisley Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Gibson Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Vitty Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of Meeting with the Joint Unionist Delegations on 8 May at 16:23 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Proposal Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Mr Brooke told the Unionist delegation that with the substance of discussion in strand two occurring in NI, though outside the Stormont Estate, this proposition would have implications for others and he recognised many of the difficulties. The... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. Dr Paisley, speaking immediately after the UUP leader, sought clarification from the Secretary of State on his proposal to use Dublin as a signing off venue and also a start location for strand three. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Government Proposal Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Moving on, Dr Paisley raised a question as to why the Government had proposed that substantive discussions in strand two in NI should take place outside the Stormont Estate. The Secretary of State replied saying he understood that the DUP were... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Potential NI Locations Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State's Summary of the Position on the Afternoon of 8 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Logistical Arrangements Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Time of Reflection Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The minutes imply a new line of discussion is embarked upon here.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Mr Molyneaux strongly endorsed the DUP leader's remarks. The Government proposal needed careful consideration and the Unionist delegation would do just that, beginning right away. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Leaders to Discuss European Venue with Mr Hume Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State had expressed his support for this approach earlier in the meeting.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Adjournment for Consultation Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Continuation of Meetings Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Nicholson returned to the question of the SDLP's position should the strand two process take place in Europe. He asked the Secretary of State whether they had totally ruled Europe out, for this seemed rather at odds with their strong European stance... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so decided.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Amendments to the Proposal Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Strand 3 Arrangements Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Strand 3 Location Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State's view is not contested.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
In continuing the strand three theme, Mr Maginnis stated that he had, up until the bilateral, believed that Unionists were entering into a negotiation process of three strands, but earlier comments from the Secretary of State seemed to suggest to him... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Nothing is Agreed Until Everything Is Agreed Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting now draws to a conclusion and the various positions from the meeting are noted for further consideration.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting now draws to a conclusion and the various positions from the meeting are noted for further consideration.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr DJ R Hill Mr Lindsay Also present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Neeson Mr Dickson Mr... Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions from the Meeting with the SDLP at 14:45 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
17. Before concluding the bilateral, Mr Maginnis again returned to his earlier point about Unionists being excluded in strand three. He asked the Secretary of State for a categorical assurance that Unionists would not be excluded from strand three. The... Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeting with the Unionist Delegation at 16:23 Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Chairman's Assessment of the Position on the Evening of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: This proposal is now taken to the parties, as we see from the minutes of the bilateral meetings.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Adjournment to meet with party delegations Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: It was so decided.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Chairman's Assessment of the Position on the Evening of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
3. Dr Alderdice asked if there was any feeling from the Unionists that they considered an accommodation on the venue question was now a possibility. The Secretary of State replied that he had no sense of that but there was a distinct feeling that only... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Continuation of Talks on 9 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting is adjourned so that the Secretary of State can put the same proposal to the SDLP.] KEN LINDSAY Talks Secretariat Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: At this point no decision is made on any of the proposed amendments, but the Secretary of State notes the SDLP views before going on to consult the other parties.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: At this point no decision is made on any of the proposed amendments, but the views of both sides are presented.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No decision is made on the preliminary proposals at this stage, but the Secretary of State notes the suggestions pending discussions with other parties.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Joint Unionist Amendment of Secretary of State's Proposal 8th May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: This document is referenced by the Secretary of State in meetings the following day.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Location of Strand 2: Written Proposal from British Government Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The proposal is circulated to the delegations.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Pope Also present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr Hendron Mr Durkan Mr Farren Mr Haughey Mr... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Media Coverage: Apology from Secretary of State Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hendron said that he had been contacted by telephone by Mr Mallie on the evening of 8 May and had been asked whether he agreed with comments that the Secretary of State was said to have made. He had not been in a position to answer him. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Explanation for the delay in starting meeting Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The apology appears to be accepted.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Joint Unionist Amendment of Secretary of State's Proposal 8th May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State asked whether the paper had been given directly to the SDLP and Mr Hume confirmed that it had not. [Editor's Note: Perhaps because it has not been made available to the SDLP delegation, the Unionist paper does not significantly... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Location of Strand 2: Written Proposal from British Government Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Location of Strand 2: Meeting with SDLP to Discuss Government Proposal (9 May 11:07) Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Collins (ROI) Amendment: Remove reference to Strand 3 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. Mr Hume responded by saying that the SDLP had studied the Government paper. It was acceptable, in principle, subject to some clarification of the third section (relating to the closing meeting of strand two) and to the definition of "Belfast area"... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Amendment: Change "Belfast" to "Northern Ireland" Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6. The Secretary of State said that his statement of 26 March had included more words than those quoted by the SDLP and referred to paragraph 3 of the statement in which he had said that "For their part, the two signatories of the Anglo-Irish Agreement... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Tentative Suggestions: Belfast Harbour Commissioners' Office and Cultra Manor Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume noted, in an aside, that the Belfast Harbour Commissioner's Office was almost impossible to get to and asked whether Cultra Manor was the building located in the Folk Park. Dr Mawhinney confirmed that it was. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Reiterate Preference for Armagh Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume noted that Armagh might even appeal to Dr Paisley since he had been born there but the Secretary of State said that it was his feeling that the attraction of Armagh to Dr Paisley on that basis was unlikely to be overwhelming. Dr Mawhinney... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
8. Mr Mallon then asked the Secretary of State whether the Government Team had engaged the Unionists on the subject of Armagh as a location for strand two. The Secretary of State confirmed that it had been discussed but only in the context of the... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
9. Mr Mallon then asked what the views of the Government side would be so far as Armagh was concerned. The Secretary of State said that he felt that Armagh had potential as a location for the opening of strand two but that it was unlikely to be a... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
10. The Secretary of State commented that the question of holding strand two in Northern Ireland had only been addressed on the previous afternoon and that, if the Unionists were ready to explore this as a possibility, then the location could be... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
11. Dr Mawhinney then set out in greater detail for Mr Mallon the difficulties that the Government side foresaw in security terms in the use of Armagh. There were bound to be a considerable number of movements into and out of the city on a daily and... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
12. Discussion then moved on to the SDLP's suggested amendments to part 3 of the Government side's proposition on the conduct of strand two. The Secretary of State said that he was coming to learn the importance which could be placed on a single word... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Movement between strands Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Settle the Issue Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
13. The Secretary of State then asked the SDLP delegation whether anyone else had any questions. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon said that he did not want to prolong discussion at this stage but asked whether areas outside Greater Belfast were regarded as "no-go" areas for the purposes of strand two. The Secretary of State confirmed that he was perfectly prepared to... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Proposal: Addition of the word 'closing' Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Dr Mawhinney said that the Government's view would be that the meeting in Dublin would be the last meeting of the bulk of the talks in strand two but that there could be reference back - the SDLP did not demur from this view. The Secretary of State... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: We record agreement, not on a final location, but that the positions to take forward in the negotiations have been stated and recorded.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: We record agreement, not on a final location, but that the positions to take forward in the negotiations have been stated and recorded.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon said that the wording that the SDLP had suggested for the closing meeting of strand two had made no reference to strand three since it was the firm view of the SDLP that there should be a clear time lapse between the two strands. Reference... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
14. Mr Hume and Mr Mallon asked whether the Government proposition which had been discussed during the course of the meeting had been discussed with the Unionists. The Secretary of State confirmed that it had been mentioned orally and in response to a... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
STEPHEN POPE 9 May 1991 [Editor's Note: The meeting adjourns so that the Secretary of State can meet with the other delegations.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1. The meeting opened at 10.40 am. Immediately before it the SDLP circulated a proposed agenda for the talks (attached at Annex A). [Editor's Note: Annex A is missing from the copy of the minutes we are using.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1. The meeting opened at 10.30 am. The Secretary of State thanked the Unionist delegation for coming and said that he wanted to use this opportunity to go through some matters outstanding. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Marsh Others Present Mr Pawson Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Nicholson Mr Robinson Mr... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting began at 12.18 and finished at 1.11 pm. The Unionist parties had been invited to field whoever they wished; in the event only the six named above attended. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Media Coverage: Apology from Secretary of State Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: No further reference is made to this matter.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Joint Unionist Amendment of Secretary of State's Proposal 8th May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
17. The meeting concluded at 4.55 pm. Mr Hume delivered his opening statement extremely fluently and did not allow the interrogative techniques of the two Unionist leaders to provoke him. He continually emphasised the need for agreement and... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He had had a meeting with the SDLP that morning on the basis of his own document; he understood from the SDLP that there had been no contact between them and the Unionists on the basis of the Unionist amendment. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government to Put Unionist Amendment to the SDLP Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Location of Strand 2: Written Proposal from British Government Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Location of Strand 2: Meeting with Unionist Delegations to Discuss Government Proposal (9 May 12:18) Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. The Secretary of State said that subject to one or two observations the SDLP were prepared to accept the Government proposal. They had withdrawn from their original position that all the second strand must be held in Dublin and from the idea of... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Strand 3 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Strand 3: Government Position Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1. A bilateral meeting was held with the SDLP at Parliament Buildings on 7 May. It began at 1050 and concluded at 1110. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Apologies for Absence Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No further comment is made on the absence.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The first bilateral meeting of the day was held with the Alliance Party in the Conference Room, Parliament Buildings on 8 May. It began at 10.37 and ended at 11.06. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The meeting began at 11.15am and concluded at 11.40am. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Government Team held a bilateral meeting with an Alliance Party delegation on 8 May in Parliament Buildings between 1555 and 1614. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Mr Molyneaux agreed with the Secretary of State's assessment of the past few days. He went on to say that there was no point in moving in limited stages. Unless it was possible to see to the end it was asking for trouble to proceed without at least... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Strand 2 Chairman Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Invitation for Full Delegation Attendance Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Strand 3 arrangements are added to the agenda.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Government position is stated and minuted.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: No further comment is made and it is assumed that the other members of the Delegation arrived at this point] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Chairmanship of Strand 2 is added to the agenda and becomes the subject of extensive discussion for the first time.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State to Chair Strand 2 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6. Dr Paisley, picking up the point, added that all the Unionist delegation were perturbed at the Secretary of State's remarks about the second strand. They had understood that the second strand would deal with North/South relations and with a way of... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. The Secretary of State, agreeing the virtue of plain speaking, offered a general statement on the talks process. He said that unless everybody agreed to everything nothing was settled. Any deal had to be regarded as good by all. His preoccupation... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1. The Secretary of State held a bilateral meeting with the UUP and DUP delegations to discuss the venue for North/South talks. The meeting began at 1150 and concluded at 1225. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Hold Strand 2 in Northern Ireland to Facilitate the Secretary of State's Chairmanship Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley interjected that he did not accept this last proposition since wherever the second strand was held the subject under discussion would be a part of British territory. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. Mr Molyneaux said that he had responded positively and constructively to the Secretary of State's public invitation to talks. He had assumed the Secretary of State would act as an honest broker. This was the Unionist perception at the time but did... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Dr Paisley asked whether it had been made clear to the SDLP that the Secretary of State would chair all the second strand. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He also asked whether the Unionist amendment had been put to the SDLP. The Secretary of State replied that the answer to the second question was in the negative; he had told the SDLP that the Unionists had submitted an amendment but that he had not put... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Adjournment for Secretary of State to Meet with SDLP Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Government Team held a bilateral meeting with an Alliance Party delegation between 1720 and 1726 on 8 May. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Government Team and an SDLP delegation held a bilateral meeting in Parliament Buildings between 14.45 and 15.45 on 8 May. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
General Approach to Negotiations Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
10. Dr Paisley continued by repeating that he was very unhappy about the second strand. He had assumed that the Secretary of State would conduct it on the same basis as he was now doing the first. His position was that if Charlie Haughey wished to take... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State agreed with that proposition, adding that the current process had been constructed on the basis that different parts would have different weights for different people and that it would be necessary to await the total package... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley enquired whether the SDLP had been asked about the Secretary of State chairing the second strand and also their attitude to Parliament Buildings as a location. The Secretary of State replied that the second issue had not been raised since... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Make Non-Negative Assumption About Other Participants Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley retorted that the Secretary of State did not know the SDLP. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State confirmed that his proposition had been put without knowledge of the other parties' positions. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Mr McCrea referred to the Secretary of State's letter of 14 March. He said that it was very clear and could leave no reasonable doubt that the Secretary of State, on behalf of HMG, would be convening talks. The Irish could have no doubt about that.... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. The Secretary of State then recalled that Eamon Mallie had referred to a Unionist written submission which allegedly stated that they would be content with alternation between London and Dublin in the second strand provided Articles 2 and 3 had... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State to Put Unionist Proposal to the SDLP and Point Out at that Archbishop Daly Suggested Strasbourg Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Location of Strand 3: Dublin Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This position is maintained in future discussions and the meeting returns to Strand 2 matters.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Meetings to Continue the Following Day Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team: Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Lindsay Also Present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Dr Hendron Mr Farren Mr Haughey Mr Feely Mr Gallagher Mr... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1. The meeting opened at 11.53 am. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Minister of State, observing that Unionist and SDLP positions about the location of the second strand appeared to be opposites, asked whether the other issues should be addressed before the venue had been resolved; Mr Molyneaux replied that the... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Government Team held a bilateral meeting with an SDLP delegation in Parliament Buildings between 1730 and 1745 on 9 May [sic]. [Editor's Note: The secretary has written the wrong date (9 May) in the minutes for this session.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Occasionally in the minutes, it is not clear who is speaking on behalf of the Government Team.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Occasionally in the minutes, it is not clear which member of the SDLP is speaking.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
On the suggestion that the talks should adjourn until Monday for reflection and to allow hime [sic] time to consult the Irish Government, the Unionists were strongly of the view that there was a need to keep going tomorrow. They thought that a loss of... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Chairman's Assessment of the Position on the Evening of 8 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Confirmation of Continuation of Talks the Following Day Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: It was agreed to continue talks the next day.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
but asked where the momentum which the Unionists had spoken of had come from. They also asked for some clarification on the proposition which was on the table. The Government Team said that they had made perfectly clear to both the Alliance Party and... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Location of Strand 2: Written Proposal from British Government Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The minutes end here.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Chairperson of Strand 2 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
17. Mr Nicholson said that he would be concerned if Unionists were excluded fully from the third strand; he was not happy with the Secretary of State's earlier response to the point raised by Mr Maginnis and Mr Trimble. Dr Paisley observed that the... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State and the Government Team met a delegation from the SDLP at Parliament Buildings on the morning of 9 May. The meeting started at 11.07 and ended at 11.40. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
18. In answer to a question whether Unionists would rule out a package deal, Mr McCrea said that they had not yet received any good reason for the rejection of their reasonable proposal. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that this issue would have to be cleared up before it created another impasse. [Editor's Note: Although no decision is made immediately, the Unionist position is noted and discussion moves on.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley, in answer to a question from the Secretary of State, requested the Secretary of State to put the proposal to the SDLP. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State agreed. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Correction to Minutes of 7 May Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
(NB. This has been dealt with separately.) [Editor's Note: We don't know what the correction was, but it seems to be have been resolved.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
but that he had only been asked about this once in the course of his meetings and that was by the Alliance Party. Mr Molyneaux made the point that it was an important issue and that they would have to come to it in due course. The Secretary of State... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Ministers to Schedule Meetings with Constituency Delegations Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
This was agreed. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux observed that he did not wish to depress anybody, but discussion had now broadened out into wider considerations; if the process continued in slow motion there were likely to be difficulties with the timetable. The Secretary of State... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
20. The meeting was a brisk one. At times, particularly in the earlier stages, it was also quite heated, on the part of Dr Paisley in particular. SIMON MARSH Talks Secretariat Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
16. Mr Molyneaux observed that in view of the separate problems which had arisen about the conduct of the second strand it would be necessary to consult the Irish. This meant that even if the SDLP were consulted that afternoon we would not yet be in... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: We have created a document to record the decisions made at this meeting. This document is now referred back to the Office of the Chairman in order to inform the meetings with the other delegations.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Location of Strand 2: Meeting with Unionist Delegations to Discuss Government Proposal (9 May 12:18) Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Conclusions of the meeting with the SDLP have been documented and are returned to the Office of the Chairman.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He expected to discuss with the Unionists during the course of the day and said that he expected that the Unionists might wish to discuss their written response to the proposition further with the SDLP the concept of a neutral venue. [Editor's Note:... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Government Team held a bilateral meeting with a joint Unionist delegation in Parliament Buildings between 1623 and 1722 on 8 May. Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Location of Strand 2: Meeting with SDLP to Discuss Government Proposal (9 May 11:07) Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1. The Secretary of State and the Government Team had a second bilateral meeting with an SDLP delegation in Parliament Buildings on the afternoon of 9 May between 1405 and 1510. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Those Present Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr Hill Mr Pope Also present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr Hendron Mr Durkan Mr Farren Mr... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Joint Unionist Amendment of Secretary of State's Proposal 8th May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
and the Secretary of State agreed, noting that he had said as much on 8 May. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the SDLP at 14:05 on 9 May - Response to the Joint Unionist Amendment Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Agenda for Afternoon Sessions on 9 May/Summary of Positions at 14:00 on 9 May Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The agenda is referred to the bilateral meetings.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Agenda for Afternoon Sessions on 9 May/Summary of Positions at 14:00 on 9 May Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Rodell In attendance Mr Pawson Joint Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Nicholson Mr Robinson... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1. The meeting began at 3.45pm. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that he had not raised it with the SDLP at their earlier meeting that day as he had wished first to verify the status of the amendment with the Unionist delegation and particularly to establish whether it was intended to be... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Point of Information: Press Reports about Unionist Position Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley (clearly uncomfortable) said that no-one should be fooled into thinking that the SDLP had been out on a simple stroll. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting now draws to a conclusion and the various positions from the meeting are noted for further consideration.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. The Secretary of State continued by saying that the Government proposition on a venue for Strand two had been formally discussed with the Unionists that morning but that the Unionists had rejected the possibility of conducting Strand two discussions... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting now draws to a conclusion and the various positions from the meeting are noted for further consideration.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
28. The meeting concluded at 1.17pm. The good humour of the early part evaporated during the discussion on key issues and by the time the meeting had got on to North/South venue Dr Paisley was not in a compromising mood. It was noticeable that Mr... Friday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Unionist Amendment given to the SDLP for Reaction Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
(NB: At this point, Mr Pawson handed copies out to the SDLP and to the Government Side). [Editor's note. It is clear that a physical action was carried out. Though no documents were attached to the minutes, we assume that the "copies" mentioned are... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting comes to an end.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusion of Meeting with the Unionist Delegation on Friday 3 May 1991 Friday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Position on Europe Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
7. The Secretary of State again said that he would find it helpful if the SDLP would clarify their thinking on the question of strand two discussions taking place on the continent of Europe in order that he could put this to the Unionists. When he had... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Consideration of Cost at European Venue Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that he had asked the Unionists whether they wished to discuss their amendment directly with the SDLP and that they did not wish to do so. 4. After a short consideration of the Unionist paper, Mr Hume asked the Secretary of... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He understood that the reason for the Unionist suggestion of Europe as a venue was based on the view that, since respective positions on this issue were still mutually exclusive (in that there was no agreement on whether discussion should be held in... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Put on Record that the SDLP Found the Unionist Position to Be Unacceptable Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
UK Government Position on Europe Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The SDLP starting position is noted for the record.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The UK Government starting position is noted for the record.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State noted this but stressed that a possible linkage of the Unionist refusal to conduct Strand two discussions on the island of Ireland with a position on Articles 2 and 3 had not been formally put to him and did not form any part of... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The Government position and SDLP position are similar in respect to consideration of cost of a European venue, so we are marking this amendment as agreed by delegation.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
8. Mr Mallon then said that his analysis of the present position was that the Unionists were indeed undertaking tactical manoeuvres in respect of Articles 2 and 3 and were attempting to disguise these by wrapping them up under cover of discussion of... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The UK Government to Press for a Decision on Strand 2 Venue Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State concurred with this point. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
26 March Statement Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume then asked whether, if this was true, the Government Team knew why the Unionists were refusing to countenance discussions in Northern Ireland - was it really because it was a location on the island of Ireland? Dr Mawhinney said that his... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Furthermore, the SDLP were, Mr Mallon said, taking stick for something that was not, and should not be seen, as their fault and this situation could not continue. His party were very close to asking the Secretary of State to take a decision on the... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
One explanation for the Unionist position might be a fear that they would be trapped into undertaking discussions in Dublin against their will if he took a decision half way through Strand two that Strand three should begin. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion on this matter closes and returns to the location of Armagh.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
9. Mr Hendron then returned to the possibility of Armagh as a venue for Strand two, and sought clarification of the process by which the Unionist amendment of 8 May had come to be drawn up. He was aware that the Secretary of State had had a discussion... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
However, the SDLP position was that they were prepared to agree to the Government proposition which had been passed to them that morning, subject to the amendments discussed. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Acceptable Locations Within Northern Ireland Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Preference for Armagh Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State then asked whether the SDLP would rule out any location. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Locations Ruled Out By SDLP Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The SDLP position on NI locations is noted by the Secretary of State.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion moves to the new agenda item.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The SDLP preferences are noted.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Articles 2 and 3 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The SDLP passed no comment on the Secretary of State's observations about Articles 2 and 3 and Strand 3.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Chairmanship of Strand 2 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
He had told them that the Alliance Party had raised the question in the "talks about talks" and he had said then to the Alliance Party that this was not an issue for discussion at that stage but rather one for all concerned in the substantive process.... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Position on Chairmanship of Strand 2 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP to Consider Chairmanship Question and Report Back Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on to other matters now.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon challenged this view claiming that there was no question of positions being mutually exclusive. Both the SDLP and the Alliance Party were content with the Government proposition subject, on the SDLP's part, to minor amendment and this left... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The SDLP should bear in mind that at the heart of the Unionist point was a strong view that as the invitation to the talks had issued from the Secretary of State, he alone should chair Strand two. Mr Hume said that the SDLP had assumed that this was an... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Summary of Current Positions Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Government to Bring Forward a Revised Proposal Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon countered heatedly, saying that the Government had put forward a proposition, that it had been agreed by two of the parties and that it was only the Unionist refusal to agree that was holding the process up. Dr Mawhinney said that the... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Secretary of State to Report to the Unionists Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The closes the meeting and confirms that he will now report back to the Unionist delegation.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Meeting with the SDLP at 14:05 on 9 May - Response to the Joint Unionist Amendment Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The SDLP reponse to the Unionist proposal is the basis of the meeting with the Unionist delegations at 1545.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: In spite of the SDLP objections, the Government position on the current positions of the various parties is the basis on which further decisions are based.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State meets with the Unionist delegation.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: At 1600, the Secretary of State meets with the Alliance Party to update them on the situtation.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: At 1405, the Secretary of State meets with the SDLP delegation.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: At 1218, the Secretary of State meets with the Unionist delegation.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: Having circulated copies of their written proposal to the parties at 0930, the Secretary of State meets with the SDLP dlegation at 1107 to discuss their response.] Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeting with Alliance Delegation on 9 May 1991 1600 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Proposal Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State Dr Mawhinney Ulster Unionist Party Mr Molyneaux Democratic Unionist Party Dr Paisley Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the SDLP at 14:05 on 9 May - Response to the Joint Unionist Amendment Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. The Secretary of State went on to report what had been said when he had raised the question of the chairmanship of Strand Two with the SDLP. Mr Hume said that this was not a matter to which he had given any thought because he had not realised it was... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley came to see the Secretary of State at their own request just after 11:00am on 13 May. Dr Mawhinney was also present and the meeting ended just before 12:00pm. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeil Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr May Also Present Mr Pawson Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Nicholson Mr Robinson Mr Cunningham Rev McCrea Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting began at 15.27 and lasted until 17.04. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeil Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Hallett Mr Watson Others Present Mr Pawson Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Robinson Mr Nicholson Mr... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting began at 11.30am and concluded at 12.55pm. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeil Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Hallett Others Present Mr Pawson Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Robinson Mr Nicholson Mr... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting began at 17.35 and concluded at 18.30. Both sides had available to them the text of the revised Joint Unionist Position Paper. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Delegation position paper Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Joint Unionist Position Paper 20 May 1991 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. The second point of clarification that the Secretary of State sought was the significance of the omission from the position paper of a reference to an opening meeting of Strand Two in London and a meeting in Dublin towards the end of June. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Talks Secretariat Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Joint Unionist Position Paper of 21 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. Dr Paisley asked whether it was the Government Team's view that the paper constituted an acceptable basis on which Strand one could now go ahead. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4. Mr Robinson said that it remained the Unionist view that Strand one should have proceeded from the outset. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State replied that he had recently re-read the minutes of the deliberations over the last three weeks and had noted that on a number of occasions Unionist participants had argued that all the Strand two issues should be resolved before... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley reiterated that the Unionists had attended on the basis of the original 26 March statement and the talks should have proceeded on that basis. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State replied that if two out of the three remaining issues could be settled quickly, there might be a basis on which to proceed. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State replied that the paper remained a Unionist document and he accepted it on that basis. The process of the past three weeks had however induced reservations on the part of others and it would be necessary to see how far the... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson said that resolving these issues involved not just the Unionist parties. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that he considered there was a collective ability to resolve two out of the three outstanding questions. This constituted a good basis for proceeding, with the outstanding question of the chairmanship being settled in the margins. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Minutes of the Meeting to Record Unionist View that Strand 1 Proceed Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so recorded.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Note: In the end no statement was made by the Unionist leaders]. 15. The meeting concluded with the Secretary of State confirming his intention to pass the paper to the other participants and said he would get back to the Unionist delegation if any... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Presentation of Amendments to the Record Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Mr Robinson proceeds.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Position of Unionist Leaders on Monday 13 May 1991 1100 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Unionist Delegation at 1545 on 9 May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Anger at Media Briefings Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Edtior's Note: The statement is recorded for further reflection by the Secretary of State rather than endorsed.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Meeting Adjournment Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting was adjourned.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral Meeting with the Unionist Delegations on 20 May 1991 at 1527 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. After the break, Mr Molyneaux clarified the use of the word "venue" in paragraph 4 of their position paper. He explained that this term referred only to that portion of strand two which was to take place in Northern Ireland, and should not be seen... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that he was very appreciative of the helpful paper which had been presented by the Unionists and the spirit in which he surmised it had been written. He said that as a first step the Government Team wanted to clarify with... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4. Mr Molyneaux said that he felt no different from last Thursday. He was depressed by the way in which the process seemed to be coming apart. The Unionists were not asking for "most favoured status". The Leaders simply responded to the Secretary of... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6. Mr Molyneaux said that the situation was very depressing, the Second Strand was now shrouded in dire uncertainty. He believed that under the Secretary of State's personal chairmanship there was some hope that progress could be made on the difficult... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. Mr Molyneaux asked the Secretary of State if he was not sick with all the uncertainty and at the prospect that the Talks would be conducted in this manner from beginning to end. The Secretary of State said that he had always regarded the venue for... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Position Paper: Share with other parties Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He then asked whether the document produced on 13 May had been shown to the SDLP and Alliance, to which the Secretary of State replied that it had not. The Secretary of State explained that the language in that document was not as clear as in the... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Opening Session of Strand Two Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley noted that the proposal for the meeting in Dublin had moved away from the initial transitional meeting between Strands Two and Three to be described as taking place towards "the end of June". He was not happy with this change. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Dr Paisley's contributions and clarifications are noted for the record.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. The Secretary of State then sought clarification on Strand three issues which were not raised in the Unionist position paper. The Unionists had previously questioned the ground rules for strand three. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Transition Between Strand 2 and Strand 3 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Dr Paisley's contributions and clarifications are noted for the record.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's note: The lack of objection to the proposed continuation of the Talks the following day if an agreement could not be reached in the current session is considered Party acceptance.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Mawhinney explained that this point had been covered in the 14 May paper. Mr Molyneaux said that the 14 May paper broke the concept of continuity. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Dr Paisley said that that the three parties were in favour of the proposal which he and Mr Molyneaux had put forward and only one party supported Mr Hume's. He and Mr Molyneaux had met the Alliance Party delegation and although they were divided... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. Dr Paisley asked the Secretary of State to confirm that on Monday he intended to bring forward a proposal which would include a venue in Northern Ireland and details about the chairmanship question. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Access to Government in Strand 3 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Minister of State said that as nothing was agreed until everything was agreed, it would be in the interests of both Governments to pass information to the parties to allow them to access what was happening and decide whether they could sign up to... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux made clear that he preferred the transition arrangement and was not happy with the new formulation. Dr Paisley asked what input the Unionists would be able to make to the Government in strand three. In response, the Secretary of State read... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Communication between the Government and the Quaestors Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
11. The meeting concluded at 4.07pm. The mood was generally depressed. Mr Molyneaux appeared to have lost all interest in the process and Dr Paisley's main concern seemed to be to establish a defensible public position. [Editor's note: Meeting was adjourned.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson asked whether the Irish Government had a problem about inviting other parties to put their views at the start of strand three. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that the presence of the parties at the start of strand three would bring with it an implication that they would be a part of the strand throughout, and that this would not be correct. [Editor's Note: There is an... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley sought an assurance that there would be an opportunity for the Unionists to put their views to both Governments at the end of strand two business and that the British Government would keep the Unionists in touch and meet them if they... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionists Free to Meet Both Governments Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Set Piece Opportunity to Put Strand 3 Concerns to the Governments Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
11. The Secretary of State explained that the independent chairman would only be involved in strand two. He would have to remain available during strand three in case it was agreed that a reversion to strand two configuration would be advantageous. He... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley and Mr Molyneaux both accepted this and said that they would be breaking new ground considering the strand three issues. Mr Molyneaux said, as an example of the type of views they would be putting forward, that he would wish to offer advice... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Comment This was an important and very constructive meeting. The Unionist position paper itself represented a very substantial shift away from the sour tone of the exchanges between the Government and the Unionist leaders in the period since 15 May.... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Rev McCrea reminded the Secretary of State that the Alliance Party were happy with the joint Unionist proposal and that this meant that it was acceptable to three out of the four parties. The Secretary of State reminded Rev McCrea that the Alliance... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's note: The following are the decisions or statements of intent during the course of the meeting that the Secretary of State needs to take forward into future discussion.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Secretariat Mr Rodell In attendance Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr McGrady Dr Hendron Mr Haughey Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
1. The meeting opened at 3.30pm. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Appointment of Independent Chairman: Unionist Position Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
15. The Secretary of State sought to draw a distinction between consent and acquiescence. Rev McCrea, once again taking a harder line than his Party leaders were, feared that the Unionists would end up looking intransigent if the two Governments sorted... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Appointment of Independent Chairman: Refinement of Unionist Position Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Rev McCrea again intervened and argued that there should be no ambiguity; the Unionists were sticking to the agreement reached with the Prime Minister. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The semantic discussion between content and consent concluded with the Unionist leaders saying that if they felt able to consent to a nominee they would be content, and if they were content, they would consent. [Editor's Note: The positions on the... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Appointment of Independent Chairman Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. The Secretary of State said that the law of reason would need to apply in selecting an independent chairman. There was a distinction to be drawn between individual who was broadly acceptable but not the personal choice of the party concerned, and... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The positions on the appointment of the independent chairman are noted before discussion moves on to the terms of reference.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Independent Chairman: Terms of Reference Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Practical Issues Concerning Strands Two and Three: SDLP Amendments and Clarifications Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Paragraph 5: Non-plenary Meetings Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State explained that the intention of this reference had been that it would be helpful to the Irish Government among others by allowing some of the bilateral meetings to be held in Dublin. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Potential Delay of Meetings Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: There was no recorded objections to the SDLP delegations concerns and therefore we can deduce that the Secretary of State and the Government Team noted the potential delay.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
7. The meeting concluded at 3.37pm. The mood throughout was relaxed. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeil Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Marsh Also Present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr McGrady Dr Hendron Mr Durkan Mr Farren Mr Feely Mr... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The meeting began at 12.10 and finished at 1.25pm. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Both Dr Paisley and Mr Molyneaux concurred. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion of Articles 2 and 3 is drawn to a close.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Movement Between Strands Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley also mentioned the time factor, which he felt would prove important. The Secretary of State read that part of 26 March statement which made it clear that the Secretary of State would propose when the other two strands would be launched. He... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Meeting the Following Day to Approve Minutes Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux explained that it was because of the novelty of the role of the independent chairman that they sought guidelines. On the location of the meetings, the Secretary of State referred to the Unionists' fear that the Irish Government might end... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Agenda for Strand 2 - Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
18. Mr Robinson explained that the Unionists would look foolish to the people of Northern Ireland if they were able to get the issue put on the agenda, but not able to persuade the Irish Government to consider alternatives or replacements to Articles 2... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Rev McCrea asked when Strand one would start, to which the Secretary of State said that he had been about to turn to that and was quite glad that it had been raised. In an aside he said that Ministers often used their phrase as a ruse to given them... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Rev McCrea then started to make his point again before Dr Paisley intervened to clarify that the discussions with the other parties about the arrangements for strands two and three did not affect the basis of strand one. The Secretary of State... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux asked if reference to the venue issue could be built into the minute of the meeting (see paragraph 3). This was agreed and the Secretary of State commented that he would see the other parties to take them through this paper. It would be... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
It was agreed that a draft minute together with any amendments to the Unionist document the Government Team wished to suggest would be circulated at 10.00am the following morning (21 May) and that a further bilateral would convene to discuss those... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
24. Mr Robinson commented that in the Unionists' view, the procedural matters should have been dealt with in the margins of the Conference. A small group might have been set up to deal with these issues without halting strand one. The current... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Minister of State asked what the Unionist parties intended to say in public about the paper. The Unionist leaders confirmed that they intended to say nothing in public at this point. Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Unionist Delegation at 1545 on 9 May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Political Talks: Practical Issues Concerning Strands Two and Three Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The proposal regarding Strands 2 and 3 is shared with all three delegations on 14 May 1991.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Political Talks: Practical Issues Concerning Strands Two and Three Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Paragraph 5: Non-plenary Meetings (substantive exchanges to be in plenary sessions) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State gave this confirmation and added that these meetings would, of course, be taking place in Northern Ireland. Mr Mallon pressed the question asking if all the substantive exchanges would take place in the plenary sessions. The... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume (as if to tell Mr Mallon to drop the subject) reiterated that the bulk of substantive discussions would take place in the plenary sessions. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Paragraph 5: Non-plenary Meetings (working groups) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The SDLP accepted this qualification. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The government clarification appears to be accepted and the discussion moves on to the question of venue.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Paragraph 5: Location of Strand 2 Talks Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that this was a matter which would need to be dealt with in Strand one. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Mr Hume went on to say that given the clarification they had received the SDLP were content to proceed on the basis outlined in the Government Team's proposition. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Delay Making News of the SDLP Decision Public Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The SDLP seems to accept this news blackout.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Independence Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State accepted this. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Minutes of the Meeting Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
and the Secretary of State confirmed that they would. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State agreed that the purpose of this provision should be to facilitate rather than to encourage the holding of bilaterals. [Editor's Note: The Secretary of State's endorsement of the Alliance position on bilaterals during Strand 2 is... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
6. Mr Haughey (who was acting as the SDLP's minute taker) asked if, after the first plenary meeting in London, the second Strand would move straight into plenary sessions in Northern Ireland. The Secretary of State replied that he could not tie the... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Government delegation meets with both the SDLP and the Alliance Party during the course of the afternoon - see Sessions 12568 and 11416). The SDLP indicates that they are willing to proceed on the basis of the Government proposal;... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Meeting the Following Day to Approve Minutes Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The following session is to illustrate an exchange of letters which takes place between the Secretary of State and the two Unionist leaders on 16 and 17 May 1991, following their meeting with the Prime Minister on 15 May 1991. The... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Bilateral Exchange Of Letters: Letter From Secretary Of State Enclosing Summary Note On The Position Of The Unionist Delegation Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Bilateral Exchange Of Letters: Unionist Position Communicated By Fax To The Secretary Of State 17 May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: We note the decision of the Secretary of State expressed in Tony Pawson's letter to move forward with consultation as a 'Refer proposal' on the most recent document presented by the Unionists.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Only the Secretary of State, his Private Secretary and the two Unionist leaders are referenced in the exchange of letters. The other parties accuse the two Unionist leaders of not consulting their wider delegations, so we have marked... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Unionist Statement of 15 May: Faxed As Basis of Continuing Talks on 17 May 1991 Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume replied that the basis of the talks process was the Secretary of State's 26 March statement. There was now some disagreement following the Unionists' meeting with the Prime Minister on 15 May; he had said at the time that agreeing to that... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Share Full Correspondence Between HMG and Unionist Leaders on 16 and 17 May Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State confirmed this, adding that he would, if necessary, publish it. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Unionists Need to Accept the 14 May Document Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
(At this stage the Minister of State left the meeting for a previous engagement). Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Basis for Talks and Agreement on the Chairman Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Proposed Meeting Between the Unionist and SDLP Delegations Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. The Secretary of State offered an account of what had transpired since his last meeting with the SDLP. He said that he had told the SDLP on the morning of 15 May (and he apologised for not having done so sooner) that the Prime Minister had sought... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
In answer to a question from Mr Hume, the Secretary of State said that his letter had set out his understanding that the Unionists were prepared to work the procedure, that they were content that an independent chairman did not mean international... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said immediately that suspension of the process was the only step; seeking to resolve the outstanding issues while substantive talks continued in parallel could lead to long-drawn-out wrangling and recriminations. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Before proceeding it was essential to know whether or not the Unionists accepted the 26 March statement and the 14 May document. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that he had no intention of withdrawing the document. The situation was analogous to that in Parliament when an enabling Act had been passed and an Order bringing it into effect was being introduced. It was possible to agree... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
12. The Unionists' position, continued Mr Hume, was contradictory; they were loyal to Britain but did not accept Government rulings unless it suited them. The Unionists had never negotiated straightforwardly on behalf of their people except at... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr McGrady asked how, if the integrity of the 26 March statement and the 14 May document remained intact, the Unionists could refer to decisions taken at the meeting with the Prime Minister. The whole area was still very grey. The Secretary of State... Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The first full bilateral meeting of the day is with the SDLP, at which the Secretary of State presents the correspondence with the Unionists dated from 17 May. There are no new conclusions from this meeting. The SDLP position is... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The meeting began at 5.20pm. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Rodell Also Present Mr Pawson SDLP Mr Hume Mr Mallon Mr McGrady Dr Hendron Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Apology for Delay Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Explanation for the delay having been made, the meeting proceeds.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[The meeting was in fact taking place at the end of a day of almost unrelieved Unionist media briefings, mostly couched in similar terms.] [Editor's Note: This editorial comment is made by Mr Rodell in the minutes of the meeting.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon asked whether it was not being unfair to the SDLP for the Government to seek to continue the process. The Secretary of State repeated that there was a fine balance between the integrity of the process and being able to resume it. The act of... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Joint Unionist Position Paper (as on 20 May 1991) Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
3. Mr Hurne (who appeared very suspicious of the paper) asked what status it had. The Secretary of State said that it was a Joint Unionist Position Paper. Mr Hurne asked what status it had in relation to the Secretary of State"s own paper of 14 May.... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State pointed out that Dr Paisley had been referring to his proposition of 14 May and not the 26 March statement which the Unionists had, indeed, endorsed. Mr Mallon asked what evidence there was of this. 4. Mr Hume noted that the... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Outstanding Issues To Be Dealt With Before Strand 1 Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Outstanding Isses to be Dealth with in a Sub-Committee Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Mallon retorted that, with respect to the Minister of State, that was an even worse prospect. The Secretary of State remarked that this was a very pessimistic attitude to take. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[At the bilateral held earlier that day the Secretary of State had questioned Mr Hume about the origins of an article that had appeared in the Irish Times that morning and which had claimed that the SDLP would be putting an ultimatum to the Government.... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State said that the SDLP's position was quite clear they were not prepared to take part in further discussions until these matters were resolved. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. Mr Mallon said that this last point was a return to earlier 'fuzziness' about the distinction between strands two and three. The Secretary of State denied this and said that the distinction remained clear. Mr Mallon said that it was difficult to... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr McGrady (oblivious to any suggestion that SDLP had said all that it had to say) asked the Secretary of State how the SDLP could react to a document which contained so many caveats and which lay such heavy emphasis on the assurances, to which they... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
9. Mr Mallon said that the Secretary of State was not helping himself. The SDLP delegation had been sitting in their room for two weeks now while he negotiated with the Unionists. They had done everything in their power to facilitate the talks process... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
12. [The meeting looked as if it was about to break up when the PUS passed a note to the Secretary of State.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
No Further Consultation on the Independent Chairman and Location of Strand 2 Talks Required Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said that they had only ruled out one location [by which he was understood to be referring back to an earlier comment about Lurgan Orange Hall] and that they were almost certain to accept anyone put forward for the chairmanship by the two... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said that it was not he who had muddied the waters by going over the Secretary of State's head; he had never done such a thing and had, in fact, only ever met "your" Prime Minister at the then Secretary of State's request. All he was saying was... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
13. Mr Mallon asked if the Secretary of State was intending to make the document public. The Secretary of State said that he was not; he had told the Unionists that he would not be asking the SDLP to react formally until the paper had been revised but... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Position of the SDLP on 20 May at 1720 Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
This was a different position from the one they had taken that morning when they had simply said that it was his responsibility to find a way forward, which he accepted. Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
14. The Minister of State made the point that it might take two or three weeks to settle the chairmanship and asked the SDLP how they saw this affecting the ten week timetable of the Talks. Mr Hume said that he did not think it affected the ten week... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
SDLP Press Statement Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume said that he would need to report back to the rest of his delegation before deciding. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance Position 20 May 1991: Face to Face Talks Monday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
5. To a further question from Dr Alderdice about how the process should move forward, the Secretary of State explained that any refined version of document would be shared with both the Alliance Party and the SDLP. He said that he had got what probably... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
15. Mr Mallon went on to say that the document before them represented a retreat from the Government's publicly stated position. The Secretary of State said that it was a joint Unionist position paper, its inadequacies had been acknowledged and it... Monday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
18. The meeting concluded at 18.10. The SDLP started the meeting in a somewhat belligerent mood and reacted strongly against what they may have misinterpreted as the Government's endorsement of the Unionist paper. The discussion which followed the... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
3. On the question of public availability of the document, the Secretary of State said that the Unionists had said it was shareable but not for the public domain. The Secretary of State explained that he had made it totally clear to the Unionists that... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Alliance to Receive the Revised Version of the Unionist Statement Monday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: It was agreed.] Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Position of the SDLP on 20 May at 1720 Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Record of the session is shared with the Unionist delegation.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. These proposed amendments were accepted by the Government side who undertook to draft an appropriate sentence for the end of paragraph 4(vi). Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Unionist amendments would have been referred to the Talks Secretariat to produce a new version of the minutes. As the revised version was queried further on 21 May 1991, we know it was not finally adopted at this meeting.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
6. Mr Close asked whether this new document replaced the one of 14 May and the Secretary of State confirmed that the new document would cover all the issues contained in the previous one as well as certain commitments to resolution of those areas where... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Amendments to the Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: During the course of the meeting, the Minister of State asked Mr Hume what he would say to the Press. Mr Hume declined to comment, but later that day a press statement was issued. A copy was retained in John Alderdice's archive and is... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarifications Requested by the Unionist Delegations 21 May 1991 1130 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Arrangements for Consulting the Parties in Strand 3 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Arrangements for Consulting the Parties in Strand 3 - Use of Independent Chairman Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Arrangements for Consulting the Parties in Strand 3 - Special Meeting Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that he would need to reflect on this suggestion. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This issue was added to the agenda.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State reiterated that this has not yet been fully considered or discussed with any of the parties. He would give a more measured response in due course. [Editor's Note: The Secretary of State refused to be drawn on a decision at this... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Strand 2 to Strand 3 Transition Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Strand 2 to Strand 3 Transition: Clear Distinction Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson raised the reference in paragraph 4(iv) of the minutes of the previous day"s meeting to the Secretary of State's role in convening strands two and three once the appropriate point had been reached and asked whether it was envisaged that... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State made clear that there would be no overlap between the strands, so we accept his amendment at the expense of Mr Molyneaux's suggestion.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Liaison Arrangements in Strand 3 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Dr Paisley said that he understood that strand three was an inter-Governmental strand, at the end of which the two Governments would report and there would be an opportunity for the Northern Ireland parties to put forward any points which occurred... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State replied that the arrangements referred to in the 26 March statement would have to be acceptable to all the parties. He had not himself envisaged they would take the form of plenary gatherings. They would need to be ad hoc and flexible. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarification of Strand 2 to Strand 3 Transition: Overlap Between Strands Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State made clear that there can be no overlap between the strands, so we accept the Secretary of State's amendment at the expense of Mr Molyneaux's suggestion.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. Dr Paisley said that the Unionist Party"s position on the way forward had been presented to the Government side. He asked what was the position of the SDLP and Alliance Parties. The Secretary of State said that the SDLP's position was as set out in... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
SDLP Press Statement 20 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Dr Paisley commented that the outstanding procedural matters for strand two could only be dealt with definitively when the appropriate information had been supplied from the Government side. The Secretary of State replied that he understood this,... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Clarifications Regarding Independent Chairman, Terns of Reference and Venue Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that he had no firm proposals as yet and invited the Unionist parties to indicate any particular concerns or ideas they might have on these matters. [Editor's Note: The Secretary of State acknolwedges the need for further... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
10. In commenting on the SDLP press statement, Mr Robinson said that all parties had to act expeditiously on the matters concerned, not just the Unionists. Mr Molyneaux added that all parties were concerned with the issues of chairmanship, standing... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
17. Mr Robinson said that on the question of venue, there had been a significant narrowing of the gap between the two sides since 30 April. All that remained to be settled was the choice of venue in Northern Ireland. Was it not possible therefore to... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14 May Ultimatum Withdrawn and the Proposals Resubmitted Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
That a Drafting Group Meet to Produce a Clear Statement of the Unionist Position Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
12. Dr Paisley asked why it was not possible simply to revert to the 26 March statement. The Unionists had given a commitment in principle to participate in strand two, subject to the outstanding points being settled. Why was it not possible,... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. Dr Paisley (picking up the suggestion in the SDLP statement that the Secretary of State did not agree with the Unionist leaders' description of their meeting with the Prime Minister) asked what aspects of the Unionist account of that meeting were... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux agreed that this idea was worth considering. He asked whether it could be made clear to Mr Hume that it was not necessary to have a three week delay in order to enable agreement on all the outstanding issues and that the Secretary of State... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that the group should agree a draft which might then be considered by a reconvened bilateral meeting. [Editor's Note: Dr Paisley clearly accepts the formation of the drafting group.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Political Talks: Practical Issues Concerning Strands Two and Three Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Alliance Party Available to Read Unionist Statement Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It is unclear why the Secretary of State makes this proposal concerning the Alliance Party at this stage, but there is no objection.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
21. At the conclusion of the meeting, Mr Nicholson complained again about the Secretary of State's "ultimatum" of the previous week. This was the wrong approach. The Secretary of State replied that we had all learned something about the art of... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Next Steps in the Process 21 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Next Steps in the Process 21 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: There was no objection.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Dr Paisley said that if it was the intention to discuss with the Unionists the following day the questions of venue and terms of reference, it would be necessary to know the positions of the other parties. The SDLP had said that the Unionists and... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Next Steps in the Process: Outstanding Issues Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. Mr Molyneaux said that the Unionists accepted that approach. On the question of location, commonsense dictated that it should be in easy reach of Parliament Buildings. The Secretary agree that, on grounds of practical convenience, Parliament... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Next Steps in the Process: Consult Other Parties on Location Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State to Consider how to Consult on Venue. Unionists to Work on Terms of Reference Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so agreed.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Next Steps in the Process 21 May 1991: Practical Arrangements for 22 May Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley indicated that he would not be available after 7.30pm the following day. The Secretary of State replied that it would also be difficult for him to be available the following evening. He suggested that a meeting with the Unionist delegation... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: As this document is considered further at the bilateral meeting with the Unionists at 1735, it must be referred out again.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This item was added to the agenda.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Unionist outstanding concerns are noted and referred back to the Office of the Chairman.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paisley Amendment to Paragraph 4 of Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State replied that he considered the present draft correctly reflected the position. He did not wish to go beyond the 26 March document or his letter to the Unionist delegation of 21 March. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Record of a Bilateral Meeting Between the Government Team and the Joint Unionist Delegation Held in Parliament Buildings on 20 May 1991 1527 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was agreed.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The minutes appear to have been adopted from this point with no further amendments proposed.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
12. With regard to the Unionist position paper, Mr Cunningham pointed out that the fact that there was no reference to Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution did not mean that the Unionists were abandoning their negotiating position on that point.... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Mr Robinson said that the title of the document was now "joint Unionist position paper of 21 May". Mr Molyneaux said that all the proposed amendments were now being incorporated in a final version. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. The Secretary of State said that he was happy to accept responsibility for passing the document to the other participants. [Editor's Note: We refer the document to the Secretary of State's Office so it will be modelled as coming from him to the... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Joint Unionist Position Paper of 21 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He asked whether the Unionist delegation intended to publish it that night. Dr Paisley replied that they did not intend to do so but would probably have to make a public statement, which had not yet been prepared. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionists to Inform Government Team of the Content of the Press Statement Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley replied however that the Government Team had not been given advance warning of Mr Hume's statement of the previous day and the Unionist parties expected the same privilege to be afforded to them. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State concurred but said that if the Unionists intended to make a statement it would be necessary for him to leave the building before they did so, as had been the case with the SDLP statement. Mr Molyneaux indicated that anything they... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The document is referred for discussion in the bilateral sessions.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Unionist Paper Endorsed by Alliance as a Coda to the 14 May Documnet Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mechanism by which Unionist Paper was Agreed to be Recognized Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
11. Returning to paragraph 7, Mr Neeson asked about the reference to a willingness to intensify the talks process. The Secretary of State explained that the one area in which the Unionist paper was not absolutely congruent with the 14 May document was... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice agreed absolutely with all this, and commented that for the Alliance Party the pain was simply in the waiting. The Secretary of State observed that if Parliament Buildings were in fact to be the location, it was possible that this would... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The session adjourned.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Agenda for Bilateral Meetings on 22 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: Agenda is referred to the bilateral meetings.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Agenda for Bilateral Meetings on 22 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Alliance Delegation on 22 May 1403 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Venue for Strand 2: Government Proposal Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice said that his delegation were happy to accept this venue. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
He asked the Secretary of State if it was his understanding that the SDLP's position on this issue was that they were content for him to resolve it without further reference to them. The Secretary of State said that it was, but that he would be... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Invitation to Alliance Delegation to Comment Now or Later Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Not to Allow Consultation to Delay Progress Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
As to the standing orders, these should be as flexible as possible and should only be sufficient to ensure that the proceedings were orderly. Mr Neeson emphasised this need for flexibility and said that the personality of the Chairman ought to be such... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Chairman's Powers to Convene, Postpone, and Adjourn Meetings Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice said that none of these powers created any problem for the Alliance Party as long as they were acceptable to others. He thought it quite unexceptionable that the Chairman should have the power to decide when meetings were held. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Rules on the Length of Contributions Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Awareness of Time Constraints Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Alliance contribution is noted and discussion moves to the next point on the Secretary of State's list.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Bilateral Meetings in Strand 2 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Bilateral Meetings in Strand 2 - Avoid Unnecessary Travel Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Alliance concern noted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Mr Neeson points out that the Alliance Party had already agreed to non-plenary sessions as part of the 14 May document.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The revised rule is adopted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Rule of Confidentiality Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Rule of Confidentiality for Chairman Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Minutes of Meetings in Strand 2 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice replied that he thought that verbatim accounts of the meetings would be unnecessary but that an aide-memoire, such as were being produced in strand one would be very helpful. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: An agreed position on confidentiality is reached.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: An agreed position on confidentiality is reached.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The PUS is clearly concerned that too strong a line has been taken with regard to a rule of confidentiality for the Chairman.] Returning to the subject of confidentiality the PUS asked if it was realistic to expect the Chairman to have... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Revised Position on Confidentiality Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The revised position was minuted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Plans for Following Week Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The next steps are agreed.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Secretary of State to Brief the Press Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance delegation agreed. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The meeting concluded at 14.24. The atmosphere was relaxed and business-like throughout. The Alliance delegation were clearly very excited about the possibility that substantive negotiations were about to begin and were determined that none of the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Alliance Party position is minuted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Conclusions of the meeting reported back to the Office of the Chairman.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Alliance Delegation on 22 May 1403 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr K Lindsay In attendance Mr Pawson Joint Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Mr Cunningham Mr Empey Dr Paisley Mr Robinson Mr Dodds Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting began at 14.40 hours and ended at 15.50 hours. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Plans for Following Week Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: No objection is raised.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Agenda for Bilateral Meetings on 22 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Paper: Terms of Reference & Standing Orders of the Independent Chairman 22 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that it would be useful to run through these ideas later in the meeting but would like to turn to the question of venue first. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Joint Unionist Delegation on 22 May 1440 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Venue for Strand 2: Governement Proposal Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Unionists signified approval of this location. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Terms of Reference/Standing Orders of the Independent Chairman Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4. The Secretary of State suggested that this should be discussed in terms of the chairman's role, the machinery for dialogue between the chairman and the participants, the staff he would be expected to have or not and the standing orders or rules of procedure. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Role of the Chairman Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
They also indicated that in para 9 of their TOR "at the request of participants" meant also at the request of HMG. Mr Robinson said that where an issue might be difficult to resolve, the Chairman could give some clarification. To a question from the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Role of the Chairman: Final Report Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
it was generally agreed that there should be some type of final report as well as aide memoire for the various meetings within the strand. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves on to the next item on the agenda.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Machinery for Dialogue Outside the Plenary Process Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that the role of the chairman was becoming like that of speaker, except that it was a matter of immateriality in the House of Commons what business came in front of the House. In the case of the Talks it was somewhat... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Machinery for Dialogue Outside the Plenary Process: Non-plenary Meetings Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion of non-plenary meetings concludes.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Staffing for the Chairman Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Staffing for the Chairman: Initial Unionist Position (TOR Paragraph 15) Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Paisley made the point quite forcibly that the Unionists did not want anyone from the Maryfield Secretariat used for this role. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Staffing for the Chairman: Molyneaux Amendment Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The concluding position on the issue appears to be that of Mr Molyneaux, despite the fact that it is contrary to the position paper the delegation of tabled.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: There is no further discussion of this issue.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: After discussion, 'it was agreed'.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Confidentiality Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Confidentiality: Press and Public Comments Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was noted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Confidentiality: Briefing of the Chairman Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note; The proposal is marked as dropped by the Secretary of State as both Mr Brooke and Mr Chilcot seems reluctant to endorse it in any way.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The agreed position is noted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Sharing of the Unionist TOR Position Paper Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Standing Orders Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
PUS explained that a letter would be written to the chairman explaining what his job was to be and there would almost certainly be private discussions before his appointment on these items. The Secretary of State explained that the terms of reference... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux said that as far as he was concerned the Government now had the copyright to it as it was meant to help the process. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Paisley commended a single sheet of rules which the chairman in the first assembly (1973) had to guide him. He said it was a short concise statement of standing orders which everyone understood and yet gave the Chairman plenty of latitude. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion now moves on from the Terms of Reference and Standing Orders to the next item on the agenda, Minutes.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Minutes Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Minutes Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: There is no objection.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Chairman to be Restricted to Meeting Participating Delegations Only Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: No objection is raised.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting moves to consider the final item on the agenda.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Agenda Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Position Paper: Agenda Items/Programme of Work Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Agenda: Initial Sessions Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was agreed.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Agenda: Sub-Committee to Set Agenda Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Sub-group to Set Agenda on Tuesday 28 May at 09:00 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was so agreed.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion is now concluded.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Paisley was concerned at getting the process off on the wrong foot. In his view phase A (see Annex B) needed to come first and that would not be over in one day if the opportunity to ask questions was taken. Mr Robinson thought that position papers... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion is now concluded and the notes would be referred back to the Office of the Chairman.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State Press Statement Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
In a final aside Mr Paisley asked for clarification on whether the SDLP had in fact been invited back to the talks. The Secretary of State said that they had not been invited on paper, but had been invited by telephone. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting concludes without any objection to these arrangements.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
KEN LINDSAY Talks Secretariat Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Meeting with the Joint Unionist Delegation on 22 May 1440 Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Unionist Position Paper: Terms of Reference for the Independent Chairman Wednesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (28 May 1991) Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The 2ecord of the meeting with the Alliance Party on 28 May states that this document had been sent to all three delegations: 'The meeting began at 12. 35 and finished at 1. 10 pm. It had before it the document entitled "Procedural... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two: As Amended in Meeting with Alliance Party Delegation 28 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
They [the Alliance Party] were content with paragraph 1. They had no problems with paragraph 2, but wondered whether the necessity for the chairman to consult the delegations before putting forward specific suggestions and proposals might not be too... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraphs 4 and 5 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraphs 4 and 5 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraphs 6 and 7 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
4. Moving on, Dr Alderdice said that he was content with paragraph 6. In paragraph 7, Dr Alderdice noted that the wording allowed the Chairman to make public comments without having secured the agreement of the heads of the participating delegations.... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Dr Alderdice has confirmed the Alliance Party accepts these paragraphs.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraphs 8, 9, and 10 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
5. Dr Alderdice was content with paragraphs 8, 9 and 10. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraph 11 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraph 12 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
In paragraph 11, he queried the concept of "other working formations". The Secretary of State explained that he had in mind sub-plenary sessions which might be regarded as expansions of the mechanism whereby the Minister of State had met the Unionists... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
6. Moving on, Dr Alderdice said that paragraph 12 had occasioned some discussion within the Alliance delegation. They agreed that the facility needed to be available, but they felt that the Chairman should be advised to use it with a measure of care.... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraph 12: Bilaterals Between Delegations Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice replied that this was an interesting issue, not least because the British and Irish Governments were in effect separate delegations in the second strand and the meetings between them would fall into that category. The principle seemed... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance Party asked for more time to consider whether bilaterals between delegations should be notified to the Chairman; they did however regard the principle as sensible. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion proceeds to paragraph 13.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraphs 13 and 14 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
7. Dr Alderdice was content with paragraph 13, especially its permissive nature. The Secretary of State confirmed that it was intended to cover all contributions to meetings. Dr Alderdice was also content with paragraph 14. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: 'Dr Alderdice was content.'] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraph 15 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
8. On paragraph 15, Dr Alderdice wondered how any lack of agreement on the record of any meeting would be resolved. The Secretary of State said that this would be for the Chairman. He hoped that the nature of any disagreement would not be so profound... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Paragraphs 16 and 17 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
9. Dr Alderdice confirmed that he was content with paragraphs 16 and 17. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Additional Points: Location Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Additional Points: Location Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice said that he agreed with this, but that he would not be surprised if it became a problem in practice. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Dr Alderdice moves on to the next point on his list.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Additional Points: Staffing Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
14. Concluding the meeting, the Secretary of State said that the document which had been discussed was of course contingent on its acceptance by the Chairman himself. It was important that it did not leak. He would be discussing it with the Unionists... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Agenda-Setting Meeting Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of state replied that it had been debated, and that whatever was decided would have to be acceptable to all participants. There were several options to explore, one of which might involve a secretariat provided by the two Governments. Dr... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Additional Points: Observation on Standing Orders and Guidelines Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State so decided.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Alliance delegation do not object to this proposal.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
S A Marsh Talks Secretariat Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two: As Amended in Meeting with Alliance Party Delegation 28 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Those Present: Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Pope Also present Mr Pawson Joint Unionist Delegation Mr Molyneaux Dr Paisley Mr Mccrea Mr... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Government Team held a bilateral meeting with a Joint Unionist Delegation at Parliament Buildings, Stormont between 14.10 and 16.00 on 28 May 1991. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (28 May 1991) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2. Dr Paisley (apparently in jovial mood) opened the initial pleasantries, commenting to the Secretary of State that he thought that the Government Team might find it of strategic value were they to seat the Unionist Delegation facing the windows, thus... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The meeting, which was held at the Alliance Party's request, began at 10.45 am and ended at 11.30 am. There was a break between 11.10 am and 11.15 am while the Secretary of State took a telephone call. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Unionist Press Briefing Are Freelance Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice continued that he could not accept the Secretary of State's explanation of the Unionists' behaviour. Their leaders were permitting their people to tell lies. He could not accept that they could simply dismiss responsibility; it was quite appalling. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Clean Copy of the Agenda Paper to be Circulated Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice was content with this. Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Lord Carrington Breaking News Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State observed that the Downtown story, coupled with Lord Carrington's statement, dealt with the particular issue and answered the Alliance Party's concern that it should be made clear that a name had been put to the Unionists. He... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
5. Dr Alderdice responded by saying that what had happened showed a lack of responsibility and was not acceptable. People were making clear comments which were untrue and unhelpful; he could not simply excuse it as freelancing. Yesterday the Unionist... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice considered that it was the Secretary of State's responsibility to tell the public. The Alliance Party felt they had been on the margins throughout the entire process because they did not create problems; now they were being further... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
10. Changing the subject, Dr Alderdice asked about the guidelines for the conduct of the second strand. The Alliance Party had accepted them on Tuesday; he understood the SDLP had done so too. The Unionists had found them unacceptable and he believed... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
11. Dr Alderdice then asked about the programme for the rest of the day. The Secretary of State replied that he intended to deal with the guidelines as quickly as possible. He hoped to take the issue forward with the Unionists later that morning. He... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
12. On the question of the independent Chairman, the Secretary of State said that it was now for the two Governments to get on with it. He had suggested to Mr Hume that the Unionists' good faith might be tested by trying to find a name to which they... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
13. Throughout the meeting the Alliance Party delegation were in a highly charged emotional state. This partly subsided after it became clear that the true story of the Unionist rejection of Lord Carrington had already emerged, but they were very angry... Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Procedural Guidelines To Be Amended Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Amendments to the Procedural Guidelines Tabled by the Unionists 28 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
After initial consideration, the Secretary of State asked whether it could be taken as read that, where no amendment was shown against a particular paragraph, the paragraph concerned could be regarded as having been accepted by the Unionists. Dr... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Work through the Paper Paragraph by Paragraph Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State confirmed that he was content with this arrangement. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (as Amended at a Meeting with the Joint Unionist Delegation on 28 May 1991) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and asked whether the Unionists, first, wished to make any general comment about the paper. 3. Mr Molyneaux responded to this invitation by asking the Secretary of State why the paper contained no definition of the purpose of Strand Two, noting that... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Add Definition of Strand Two Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that he did not feel it absolutely necessary to include a form of words in the Chairman's brief so long as it was clear to the Chairman what the purpose of Strand Two was. The formula quoted by Mr Molyneaux was, in fact, the Secretary... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
That said, he did not feel that it would be productive to discuss new textual formulae - he agreed with Dr Paisley's suggestion that the aim should be to avoid misunderstandings around the table. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist to Brief Chairman on 21 March Formula Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that he, personally, saw no difficulties with this approach since that formula represented the heart of what the process was about. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 2 (Suggestions and Proposals by Chairman) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 2 (Suggestions and Proposals by Chairman): Unionist Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 2 (Suggestions and Proposals by Chairman): Unionist Amendment - Change to "a delegation or delegations" Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and this was accepted by the Unionists. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 2 (Suggestions and Proposals by Chairman): Chilcot Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 2 (Suggestions and Proposals by Chairman): Chilcot Amendment Refined Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Mr Robinson, while not objecting to the totality of the wording, said that he saw some difficulties with the use of the term "consultation". Unionist parties in Northern Ireland were well aware of the implications of "consultation". Citing his... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Empey said that this was predicated on the Unionist view that whoever was appointed as Chairman should act as a Chairman and not as an arbitrator or facilitator. Given this the onus should be on the delegations to ask the Chairman to act on their... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. PUS said that there was another aspect to the proposed amendment which needed to be considered. The Government Team would, in the near future, be approaching potential candidates for the Chairman's post and needed to be in a position to be able to... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Decision on Paragraph 2 (Suggestions and Proposals by Chairman) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley said that he would be content to settle for the new form of words put forward by PUS and was supported by Mr Cunningham who felt that the use of the term "suggestions" was more tentative, and thus more acceptable, than the use of the firmer... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
10. In a question unrelated to the discussion that had gone before, Mr Robinson asked whether all delegations now had the procedural guidelines document and the Secretary of State confirmed that this was the case. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 3 and 4 (Steering Group and Business Committee) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 3 and 4 (Steering Group and Business Committee): Unionist Amendment to Drop Steering Committee Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that his main concern was to ensure that the Chairman could get his job done - given the strong views that had been expressed he would go ahead on the basis that there should be a Business Committee only. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. Dr Paisley felt that this was a good piece of work but said that he still saw difficulties with it - it did not state firmly enough that the Chairman should not be able to put forward his own proposals. The Secretary of State then asked the Unionist... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Unionist Delegation saw the Business Committee as the working arm of Strand Two but saw no need for an additional, formal, group which could prove cumbersome. If there was a requirement for the Chairman to talk on a regular basis to the leaders of... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Since the Secretary of State has now accepted the Unionist amendment, Paragraph 3 can now be adopted as amended. No formal vote is proposed.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 5 and 6 (Business Committee and External Lobbying) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and Mr Empey confirmed that they were. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 7 (Media) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 7 (Media): Unionist Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 7 (Media): Chilcot Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
They felt strongly that the Chairman should be restrained from "going off at a tangent" and should only involve himself in such discussion with prior approval. Dr Paisley said that he saw the Chairman acting more as the Speaker of the House of Commons... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
PUS said that this formula still begged the question of the Chairman identifying a need or the leaders of the Delegations seeing a need for the Chairman to act but he felt that it met the general points that had been made by the Unionist Delegation. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Decision on Paragraph 7 (Media) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
16. Dr Paisley said that he found the form of words acceptable Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
but Mr Cunningham noted that much would depend on the degree of trust. The Secretary of State said that if sufficient trust were generated, then it might be possible that for all involved to overlook the guidelines but Dr Paisley said that this could... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
No Socialising by Unionist Delegations Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of state commented that the development of trust would be based on the way in which business was conducted, to which Dr Paisley replied that, if the Chairman were a wise man, he would keep his mouth closed Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 8,9 and 10 (Conduct of Proceedings) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and Mr Empey confirmed that they were. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 11 and 12 (Nature of Meetings) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 11 and 12 (Nature of Meetings): Unionist Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson said that he felt that the Government Team had taken leave of its senses when drafting this paragraph which referred only to plenary sessions. The numbers of people who would be involved in plenary discussions would not allow any chance of... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 11 and 12 (Nature of Meetings): Chilcot Amendment (1) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Unionist Delegation wanted it made clear that there were two different types of meeting, ie plenary and others. As things stood, the Government draft only allowed non plenary other meetings to take place on a "grace and favour" basis. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 11 and 12 (Nature of Meetings): Brooke Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
23. Mr Cunningham's immediate reaction was to suggest that this formula avoided the issue of the possibility of sub-delegation meetings, Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 11 and 12 (Nature of Meetings): Add the Words 'at Stormont' to the Brooke Amendment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Decision on Paragraphs 11 and 12 Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
This was agreed by the Government Team. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
20. PUS explained that this took account of the possibility that some meetings might be conducted on a sub-plenary basis. Dr Paisley said that he was not happy with the formula since it allowed no place for multi-lateral or bilateral meetings without... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
21. The Secretary of State then said that, if progress was to be made, it was necessary to try to get to the substance behind the words that the Unionists had put forward and he asked the Delegation what kind of meeting they were most anxious to cover.... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraphs 13 and 14 (Conduct of Business) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
24. In response to a question from the Secretary of State, Mr Empey confirmed that the Unionist Delegation were content with paragraphs 13 and 14. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 15 (Records of Meetings) Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 15 (Records of Meetings): Unionist Request for Clarification Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State suggested that the system that had been developed during bilateral meetings over the previous weeks appeared to have been well received and he suggested that this should continue. Dr Paisley then asked, for clarification, whether... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley confirmed that he saw no problems in arranging for the Business Committee to confirm the record of plenary sessions as this would tend to relieve the plenary session itself of an additional pressure which might interfere with the conduct of... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Dr Paisley confirms that he is satisfied with the clarification provided and is willing to accept the original Government proposal.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Staffing Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said the Government Team had not defined the type or level of staffing that might be most appropriate for Strand Two. He was aware that it was the view of the Unionist Delegation that staffing should be supplied by the host... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Staffing: Secretary of State to Reflect and Bring Forward Proposals at a Later Stage Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion moves on to the question of Strand Three. The Unionist delegation seems content to leave the Secretary of State to reflect further on the matters raised. No proposal on staffing is included in the revised Procedural... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Add Paragraph: Strand Two to Strand Three Transition Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and sought an assurance from the Secretary of State that the wording of the Procedural Guidelines would not prevent the facility, in the final meeting of Strand Two, to deal with the issues which might be raised in Strand Three. The Secretary of State... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Add Paragraph: Strand Two to Strand Three Transition Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The implication of the Record is that the new paragraph was included as a summary of the agreement reached at the meeting. We therefore represent it as agreed by both delegations.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The implication of the Record is that the new paragraph was included as a summary of the agreement reached at the meeting. We therefore represent it as agreed by both delegations.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
30. Mr Molyneaux then asked what progress had been made in arranging a meeting of the plenary sub-group which had been convened to consider the agenda for strand one plenaries. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Sub-Group to Meet at 1700 in the Conference Room Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: No objection is made.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Business for 29 May Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and the Secretary of State said that he could not be specific on this at that stage as he would be involved in various discussions. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The proposed amendments are referred back to the Office of the Chairman in order that a revised set draft Procedural Guidelines can be prepared.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
31. A revised set of draft Procedural Guidelines was subsequently produced, cleared in a small sub-group comprising the Minister of State, Mr Robinson, Mr Empey and Mr Thomas; and recirculated to the Unionist delegation (text at Annex C). [Editor's... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Government delegation meets with the Unionist parties at 1410 to discuss the draft Procedural Guidelines. Amendments are proposed and referred back to the Chairman's Office in order to produce a new version of the Guidelines.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two 9 (Amended 28 May 1991) Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Revised Draft Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two 28 May 1991 Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
31. A revised set of draft Procedural Guidelines was subsequently produced, Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (28 May 1991, 1715) Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
and recirculated to the Unionist delegation (text at Annex C). Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1. The Government Team held a bilateral meeting with the Joint Unionist Delegation at Parliament Buildings, Stormont between 1437 hours and 1540 hours on 3 June 1991. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Report on Secretary of State's Meeting with Irish Ministers on 31 May 1991 Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He noted that the meeting had lasted for almost 4 hours and that, during it, he had sought to bring Mr Collins and Mr Burke up to date on developments in Belfast not just in recent days but over the past weeks as well. There had been exchanges on the... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Proposals for Independent Chairman Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (28 May 1991, 1715) Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
There had also been discussion at the meeting with Irish Ministers on the procedural guidelines for Strand Two. The Secretary of State continued by saying that he wished to use this meeting to cover some outstanding points on the procedural guidelines... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Unionist Delegation said that they had not received this document and, during a pause while the copies were obtained, Mr Cunningham asked what was the status of the document and who had agreed it. The Secretary of State said that the document had... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Process for Agreeing Revised Procedural Guidelines Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that this would be the case. As an aside, the Secretary of State then said (as a human comment) he was unconvinced, on the basis of his experience so far, that the bilateral process was the most rapid way of making progress.... Monday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The Workplan is referred to the Delegations. It is not clear on what day this would have happened. On 3 June when it is discussed at a bilateral meeting with the Unionist parties, Mr Mawhinney appears to have already discussed the... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Workplan for Strand 1 (as circulated by the Minister of State for approval by the delegations) Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Mawhinney said that the one outstanding task which he had had to complete was to broker some minor amendments with the SDLP. This had now been done, and the workplan was now ready for final agreement. Mr Robinson said that the Unionists were still... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson then confirmed that he was content with the workplan for Strand One and Mr Cunningham, after a short pause while he studied the document again, confirmed that he, too was happy with it. [Editor's Note: Mr Robinson and Mr Cunningham appear... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The meeting began at 3.45 and ended at 4.00pm. The Secretary of State apologised that the previous meeting had run on beyond the time at which Dr Alderdice had had to leave. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (3 June 1991) Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State continued by saying that the Government Team continued to see a requirement for the Chairman to consult and hoped that his earlier agreement to the removal of the words "proposals and propositions" from this paragraph and the... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 2: Delete "with the agreement of one or more Delegations" Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
That said, he would need to satisfy himself about the Government's suggestion and would discuss it and come back with a view. Mr Cunningham said that he, too, would look closely at the suggestion and come back with a view. [Editor's Note: The Unionist... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 10: New Wording Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that the concept of venues for Strand Two set out in paragraph 10 had been previously agreed but that he now proposed to remove references to location of plenary meetings as being unnecessary in what were, after all,... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. In response, Mr Robinson asked whether the word 'regular' was, indeed, the best one to use in seeking to portray the agreement that had been reached since it raised the possibility that plenary meetings would be conducted at set times and at set... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Cunningham then said that, having listened to the argument for the proposed change, the Unionist Delegation would consider the revised paragraph 10 and come back with a view. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson, however, said that he was clear on the purpose and intent of the amendments suggested by the Government Team and would discuss it with party leaders. Monday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The staffing paper is sent to the delegations for their consideration.] Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Staffing of Strand Two Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Mr Cunningham then raised the question of the locations for the plenary sessions of Strand Two, noting the Irish Government's suggestion that reference to these be removed from paragraph 10 – he asked whether it might not be appropriate to retain... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
10. Mr Dodds then raised the question of the reference in the last sentence of the new paragraph 10 to the exchanges which might take place between the Chairman and delegations in respect of meetings, asking for some clarification of the perceived... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 15: Delete Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Note that Unionists Object to the Use of Irish Civil Servants Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
However, the significance of the Unionists' concern about the deployment of members of the Anglo-Irish Secretariat as part of the Chairman's support team was taken. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Cunningham and Mr Robinson then indicated that they were both content with the staffing document as drafted. [Editor's Note: The document, having received the approval of the Unionist delegation, must be referred back to the Office of the Chairman... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Note that the Unionist Amendments Had Caused the Delay Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Business for the Day: Unionists to Report Back by 1800 Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Empey said that it was felt on the Unionist side that removal of paragraph 15 would tend to dilute the understandings that had been arrived at. Their reason for originally seeking the inclusion of paragraph 15 and its retention on this occasion was... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that the aim of the document was to offer the widest choice of alternatives to a Chairman and that, in drafting it, he had tried to respond in diplomatic language to points which had been made to him by the Unionist... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Mr Robinson then asked the Secretary of State whether the other delegations had been given, by the Government Team, the list of potential candidates for the post of independent Chairman which had been sent to him by Dr Paisley on 31 May. The... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Cunningham confirmed that the Unionist Delegation would do this but that, if they had an earlier definite indication, then they would let the Secretary of State know. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Accusation that the Government Team had Briefed against the Unionists Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that this was not the case. No statement suggesting agreement was made until all parties had clearly agreed to a particular issue. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionists to be Informed once Alliance Party Agree Workplan Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and, in response to a question from Mr Cunningham, confirmed that he would tell the Unionists when this had been received. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
COMMENT 20. The meeting was, generally, workmanlike in nature but was spoiled towards the end by ill-considered and unhelpful interventions, mainly from Mr Maginnis who seemed to be developing his own particular conspiracy theory to explain the... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. Mr Robinson said that the Unionists' aim in raising the issue and coming forward with a list of names was to be helpful to the process. He said that he had detected suggestions by the SDLP and the Irish Government that the Unionists were not... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Maginnis then claimed that the Secretary of State had conducted discussions and agreed matters with the Irish Government outside the process and the Secretary of State again pointed out that this procedure was necessary as part of the backward and... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
3. On the procedural guidelines for the second strand, the Secretary of State said that he was grateful for the constructive attitude shown by the Alliance Party. The Unionists had suggested some amendments to the document which the Alliance Party had... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Staffing of Strand Two Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance Party were welcome to take it away for consideration. [Note: the Alliance Party subsequently confirmed that they were content.] Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
7. Concluding the meeting, Mr Close repeated that the Alliance party would examine the paper on staffing. Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
17. Mr Robinson then queried the basis on which the Secretary of State would feel able to suggest that the process could move forward and the Secretary of State restated to him the wording on the subject contained in aide memoire of the 21 May... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
the Secretary of State said that it was possible the Unionists would react on the guidelines document later that day. He would then seek to determine whether the parties would be content for first strand plenaries to start before a chairman for the... Monday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
TALKS SECRETARIAT [Editor's Note: The record ends without formal adjournment or further comment.] Monday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The letter from Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley is referred for discussion at a meeting of the Joint Unionist Delegations on 4 June.] Monday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Marsh Also present Mr Pawson Joint Unionist Delegation Mr Cunningham Mr Robinson Mr Dodds Mr Empey Mr Maginnis Mr Wilson Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The meeting began at 10.55 and ended at 11.35 am. Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Letter from the Joint Unionist Delegation Leaders to the Secretary of State 3 June 1991 Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2. In answer to an invitation from the Secretary of State, Mr Robinson spoke to the letter. He said that it had been agreed by Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley and handed to the Minister of State the previous night. The Unionists were anxious to resolve the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
to that end it confirmed in writing that they had endorsed the workplan for the first strand Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and were content, subject to no Maryfield staff being nominated as note-takers, with the memorandum on staffing for the second strand. Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Of the three Dublin amendments to the guidelines for the second strand the Unionists had no quibble with what was proposed for paragraph 2. Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
They were also prepared to accept the deletion of paragraph 15, subject to the understanding that issues relevant to the third strand could be raised in the final meeting of the second strand. Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4. Apart from these points, concluded Mr Robinson, the letter spoke for itself. The Unionist leaders had agreed that it should be discussed by the same team as had featured in the previous day's meeting. Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Process to Agree Guidelines with the Irish, Alliance and the SDLP Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
In answer to questions from Mr Cunningham and Mr Robinson, the Secretary of State said that those parties had seen no drafts of the guidelines other than the original; he could not however comment on whether the SDLP might have been kept in touch by... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
3. However, continued Mr Robinson, paragraph 10 was problematical. He was not convinced that the Dublin amendment was an improvement; he preferred the original version. In particular, the word "regular" conveyed the wrong message. Mr Robinson urged the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Discussion proceeds on the issues raised in the letter.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Written Statement from the Secretary of State on the Venue for Strand 2 Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. The Secretary of State replied that the position was straightforward. The 14 May document had been accepted by all except the Unionists. By 21 May the Unionists had delivered a response which asserted the substance of that document with two... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Paragraph 10: Unionist Amendment to Clarify Venue Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
He would be happy to put in writing, copied to the Irish Government, that the relevant sentence in the 26 March statement applied to the second as well to the first strand. Mr Cunningham indicated that he would accept this offer. The Secretary of State... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Letter on Venue to be Available to the Chairman Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
12. Mr Cunningham asked whether these assurances would be in the form of a letter copied to the other parties; the Secretary of State replied that he would check with the other parties before he sent it to the Unionists. In answer to a further question... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Both delegations agree this approach.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Mr Maginnis then referred to the final paragraph of the Unionists' letter and hoped that it would now be possible to begin plenary sessions in the first strand on the basis of the Secretary of State's suggestions for resolving the outstanding... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The wording now proposed by the Unionists contained no reference to this commitment; he did not wish to reopen the issue with the Irish. In answer to a question from Mr Cunningham about whether the issue was now one of timing rather than location, the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Confirmation about use of the Word "regular' and Notetakers for Strand 2. Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Edtor's Note: The meeting concludes at this point.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. The atmosphere of the meeting was at times rather fraught and impatient, and there appeared to be a slight degree of confusion on the Unionist side as to the precise issues under discussion. SA MARSH Talks Secretariat Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The meeting began at 12.05 and ended at 12.10pm. Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Procedural Guidelines must now be made available to the Alliance and SDLP as outlined by the Secretary of State. In the event, he also seems to discuss them with the Irish Government again before making final changes and circulating... Tuesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (3 June 1991) Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Update on the Timescale and Letter to the Unionists Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
3. The Secretary of State brought the Alliance Party up to speed on developments. Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
5. The meeting was extremely relaxed and good-humoured throughout. SA MARSH Wednesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The version of the Procedural Guidelines produced at 1745 the previous evening is circulated to the parties for final approval.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (4 June 1991, 1745) Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
2. In answer to an invitation from the Secretary of State, Dr Alderdice said that the Alliance Party's concern was to hurry things up. They had studied the document and had clarified where it was different from the earlier draft they had seen. They had... Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
4. Dr Alderdice asked whether the guidelines had been accepted by Dublin. The Secretary of State replied in the affirmative, as he did to Mr Close's jocular question about whether the Unionists had accepted them. Wednesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Procedural Guidelines for the Conduct of Strand Two (4 June 1991, 1745) Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
He said that the document had been sent to the SDLP as well, and that he could not move forward until they had cleared it. At that stage he would want to address whether it would be possible to move to plenaries without final agreement on a Chairman... Wednesday June 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: There is a lack of clarity in the decision-making in this meeting. The letter from the Unionist leaders asked the Secretary of State to go back to the Irish Government with a request to reinstate the venues for Strand 2 in Paragraph 10.... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
However, Dr Paisley maintained his stance commenting that the process was being deliberately slowed by others who did not want to work. Mr Molyneaux supported the UDUP leader's views, referring to a loss of momentum which he had consistently warned the... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
18. Mr Molyneaux observed that he was always reluctant to say "I told you so" but this meeting had not been a happy experiment. There did not appear to be much between the parties, and perhaps the Business Committee should consider the matter. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State replied that when the press statement was being drafted the previous evening, he had sought to find a neutral phrase. Dr Paisley observed that it had never intended to be taken literally. Dr Paisley went on to read out what he... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
before observing that the Alliance paper could not be taken by the Business Committee since it was outside its terms of reference and involved people who would not be present at it. The Secretary of State replied that members of the Business Committee... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
23. Although the meeting was brisk and pretty ill-tempered at times, the delegates left the room in a reasonably amicable fashion. S A Marsh Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
The UDUP noted that the morning plenary session had not endorsed the view of the Business Committee supporting a complete ban on such contact. But the UDUP remained ready, if all other parties were of the same mind, to ensure that no member of their... Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
On the wider aspects of the process, the SDLP did not believe that Strands One and Two could be completed before the necessary preparations for the 16 July IGC began. If parties to the Talks believed that the process and the issues which it was... Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Agree a Second Gap at the IGC Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Timetable for 25 June to 1 July Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Neither the UDUP nor the UUP saw any difficulty with this suggestion. The former, though, said that those papers which were prepared ought to contain the candid views of the parties - if the parties were not willing to set out their views, the gap... Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Viability of Tabling Position Papers Without Immediate Prospect of Agreement Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
[Editor's Note: The Chairman has proposed that the matter should now be considered by the various parties.No objection is made to this consultation exercise, although the SDLP feels the proposal is unlikely to have the support of their party.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Availability of the Independent Chairman Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting began at 1420 and concluded at 1550. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Pause to Read the Document Followed by Discussion Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: No objection is raised.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. Mr Hume expressed concern at the format of the paper and the headings included. He had thought that the agreed procedure was to move from statements of position to examination of issues of general principle, after which structures would be examined.... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Working Document: Constitutional Status Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Status: Unionist Amendment Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Postpone Discussion of the Most Controversial Issues Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Trimble asked what Mr Hume meant by the most controversial issue. mr Hume replied that beginning with this issue, on which views were fundamentally divided, would cause difficulties. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
SDLP Affirm NI as Part of the UK Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Hume said that was clear from the SDLP paper. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Status: SDLP Amendment Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State commented that the elements Mr Hume had identified could be tackled under Item 5 of the document. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Avoid Repeating Position Papers Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
In the adjournment, members of the Business Committee joined the Plenary Session at 1605. During the recess for tea, they were to report back to the delegations on the suggestions put forward at the 1400 Business Committee meeting. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: Discussion moves on from the media embargo.] Monday July 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mrs Bell Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr Dickson Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mervyn Jones Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Jonathan Rodell Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State and Mr Hanley met members of the Alliance Party delegation, led by Dr Alderdice, at lunchtime today. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice was accompanied by Mr Morrow, Mr Close, Mrs Clark-Glass and Mr McBride. You, Mr Thomas, Mr Bell and I were also present. [Editor's Note: 'you' refers to Mr D J R Hill; 'I' refers to David Ferguson.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral Alliance 21 October 1992 Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Reasoning for Meeting Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
5. Turning to issues, [Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Collapse of the Talks Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Problem of the SDLP Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
9. Mr Close and Mrs Clark-Glass shared their colleagues' analysis. Mr Close said he believed that a Sunningdale Mark II could be sold to the Unionists but he feared that the whole process was beginning to unravel. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance delegation had worked hard with the Unionists to help them realise that they would need to move a good deal in order to reach an accommodation and that if they did not the future was bleak. They thought that they had been successful, as... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Areas on which Negotiations Should Focus Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
It had lasted three quarters of an hour in the bar and had not been well constructed. Participants were himself, Dr Alderdice, and Mr Close for the Alliance, and Mr Hume, Mr Mallon and Mr Durkan for the SDLP. Mr Hume in particular had made some... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Problem of the Unionists Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
10. Responding, the Secretary of State said that he, too, shared Dr Alderdice's analysis, which he had found very helpful. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Unionists had indeed come along way and were clearly prepared to contemplate arrangements in Northern Ireland which would scarcely have been considered possible a number of months ago. They had also shown a willingness to embrace North/South... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The problem was that there was no effective leverage on the SDLP. If the talks failed, they would be content with the fall-back of direct rule and the Anglo-Irish Agreement. The Irish Government similarly had no need to move before the anticipated... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Reluctance towards Strand I Arrangement Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
However, he also had a feeling that Mr Hume considered that opinion to be short sighted and that he was quite prepared to set it aside if it suited his purpose. For all that, he must surely know that his Strand I proposals were simply not feasible. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
12. As far as the DUP were concerned, the Secretary of State said that he, too, had found Mr Robinson more flexible than Dr Paisley and more willing to stay in the process. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
However, he feared the Irish Government's attitude and their reluctance to exert pressure on the SDLP, who were more interested in North/South institutions than on the internal government of Northern Ireland. There was a need to smoke people out until... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Options in the Case of Talks Failing Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Persuading Mr Hume to Move Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
He could become obstinate if, particularly in his present mood, he felt he was being put under pressure. Presenting him with a bleak scenario after failure would need to be balanced with a positive picture of what the nationalist community, the SDLP... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
It would be a delicate job to persuade him that in present circumstances standing firm was not a measure of strength but of weakness. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
15. In thinking ahead to what might be done following a breakdown, Ministers and officials had touched on virtually every conceivable permutation. One possibility, for example, might be to publish a discussion document setting out the options for... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Secretary of State to Leave the Meeting Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: He leaves.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
In the concluding 10 minutes of the meeting, Mr Hanley said that he entirely agreed that the prospects after breakdown were indeed bleak and that participants needed to be reminded of them. Mr Thomas added, however, that it was perhaps not surprising... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings with the other parties.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
17. The meeting ended on this upbeat note after an hour and a half, with both sides agreeing that it had been a very helpful clearing of the air. Signed DAVID FERGUSON Private Secretary Wednesday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral Alliance 21 October 1992 Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson, Mr Dodds, Mr Wilson and Ms Paisley of the DUP came to see the Secretary of State and Mr Hanley at 5.05pm on Friday, 23 October 1992. Mr Fell and I were also present. The meeting lasted for about 25 minutes. Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2. It was a subdued meeting with both sides showing a reluctance to risk any indiscretions. Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral DUP 23 October 1992 1705 Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Amendment of Articles 2 and 3 Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This was so.] Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
North/South Institutions Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The DUP had been astonished to hear that the UUP and the Alliance were apparently willing to contemplate executive power for north/south bodies which might have remit as wide as that of a whole Department such as Agriculture. As the DUP understood it... Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Representation Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dialogue with UUP Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State encouraged them to pursue that. Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Sir Ninian's Position Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Robinson said that he hoped that that was right, though if it was it was disturbing that Sir Ninian could have misunderstood the position so thoroughly. The DUP were still hoping that these "lunatic" ideas would be dropped and that the proposals... Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State and Mr Hanley expressed satisfaction that the DUP had written. HMG had been a little concerned that, initially, it had been the only participant to submit papers to Sir Ninian. Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Remaining Issues Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. In response to questions, the Secretary of State gave as his judgement both that the Irish were serious about securing agreement (and recognised that the amendment of Articles 2 and 3 was necessary for that) and that there was a prospect of the SDLP... Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
In conclusion the Secretary of State re-affirmed his view that it was very important to get the DUP fully back into the talks, if at all possible. Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting ends.] Signed W R Fittall Private Secretary Friday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings with the other parties.] Friday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral DUP 23 October 1992 1705 Friday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hanley held a meeting with Messrs Haughey, Farren, Durkan and Feeley and Mrs Rodgers yesterday afternoon. Messrs Fell and Thomas were also present. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The meeting lasted about one and a quarter hours. Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral SDLP 28 October 1992 PM Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Position of the SDLP Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
There would be a hierarchy of decision making levels which at the lower level might allow Heads of Department (or members of a Commission) to act autonomously in agreement with their Irish counterparts without referral back to either legislature, but... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
4. Heads of Department would not act in isolation from their respective legislative basis. The SDLP envisaged discussion before, and consultation after, any meeting with Ministers from the Republic. There would also be a Secretariat to service the... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. The Council of Ministers envisaged by the SDLP would meet on a regular basis to address the whole horizon of North/South issues, and could, where appropriate, issue directives, on the EC model, with full legislative force which would then form... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: This was so.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Avoiding Misunderstandings with the Unionists Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
and were encouraged to explain the full basis of their proposals so as to avoid possible misunderstandings with the Unionists. In particular, the checks and balances envisaged by the SDLP to prevent for example an SDLP Minister acting of his own bat... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Questioning on Strands I and II Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Possibility of Amendment to SDLP proposals for North/South Institutions Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
but argued this could be wrapped up with the change to Articles 2 and 3 where an agreement needs to be reached. The SDLP also envisaged a North/South inter-Parliamentary body which was very similar to the Unionists IIRC proposal. It would have the... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Referral to the legislature could mean referral to a Commission or to an Assembly. (At this point Frank Feeley, who was not really at the races throughout the meeting, said that it could not be an Assembly.) This would make an enormous different to... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Collective Responsibility Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
They were concerned that the UUP had not addressed the issue, and seemed unwilling to sign up to such a proposal on the grounds that it approximated to power-sharing. Mr Thomas pointed out the Strand I sub-Committee contained a number of hints that... Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
10. At the end of the meeting it was agreed that a further meeting between the SDLP and officials would take place on Thursday. The SDLP were also to continue their series of meetings with the UUP. signed Peter May PETER MAY Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings on this topic.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral SDLP 28 October 1992 PM Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Fell, Mr Thomas, Mr Cooke and I met with the SDLP delegation for three-quarters of an hour earlier today. The SDLP were represented by Messrs Haughey, Farren, Durhan, Feeley and McClelland and Mrs Rodgers. Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting begins.] Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral SDLP 29 October 1992 Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
HMG's Position on Strand II Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: HMG gives their position.] Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Meeting SDLP Concerns Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
5. The SDLP said this would be a helpful formulation to use, as it showed an understanding of nationalist position. Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Material for UUP Bilaterals Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
That would be short of a formal declaration which might not sit well in the current phase of the talks. Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Strand II Executive Authority Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Fell explained the British Government would have no major role in the institutions which resulted from Strand II, although it could envisage being involved in some subjects arising in the institutions of Strand II. It had therefore taken the... Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Fell explained that HMG had not argued on its own behalf that Articles 2 and 3 should be amended, but had merely made an objective comment that it found it difficult to see how any settlement could be reached without amendment. If the SDLP made... Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The SDLP accepted that there was a linkage, and seemed to acknowledge it would need to be addressed sooner rather than later. They said they would put this point to Mr Hume and Mr Mallon on their return tomorrow (Friday). Thursday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Wednesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Absence of Collective Responsibility Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Fell stressed the Strand I Sub-Committee Report was not a Unionist report but an attempt to maximise areas of convergence. The proposals were incomplete, and not just incomplete from the SDLP's point of view. The role of the Panel within the... Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: There is agreement on the absence of collective responsibility in the Sub-Committee Report and the need for this to be addressed.] This was another area in which the Sub-Committee Report was incomplete. Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Strand I: Nationalist Identity Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Fell outlined the proportionality arrangements, with weighted majority and trigger mechanisms as safeguards, and the existence of a Panel which would operate only on the basis of unanimity. This latter point had only been raised by the SDLP and had... Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Mrs Rodgers' question is addressed.] Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The meeting ended with the SDLP acknowledging the need to examine such issues further, and to draw leaders into the debate before further substantive progress could be made. signed: PETER MAY Thursday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings on this topic.] Thursday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral SDLP 29 October 1992 Thursday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
1. As you know, I met Dr Alderdice and four of his Alliance Party colleagues (Mr Morrow, Mr Neeson, Mr McBride and Mrs Clark-Glass) at their request this morning [Editor's Note: 'I' refers to D Fell, and 'you' refers to Mr Thomas.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
to hear their views on the present position in the Talks. Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral Alliance 27 October 1992 Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Security Issue Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
9. Mr Fell suggested that one area for consideration was some symbolic recognition of the nationalist identity. The SDLP said that substance was most important to them, but agreed that the symbols could play a large part in selling any deal to their... Thursday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
and in particular on the SDLP proposition that the RUC be split into a "Civil Crime" and "Anti-terrorist" wing, the first coming within the ambit of a new NI Administration, and the second within the ambit of a new North/South Institution. Alliance see... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Security Issue: Alliance Proposal I Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Security Issue: Alliance Proposal II Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
4. On the first of these proposals, I responded that while this was properly a matter for experts to consider, I thought it likely that there could be difficulties of both principle and practice - for example, I ventured to suggest that intelligence... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
On their second proposal - the creation of a Department of Criminal Justice - I indicated that while HMG might not agree with Alliance on the detail, we would not see major difficulties of principle and indeed could see some merit in the idea.... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Positions are noted and the discussion moves on.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Strand I Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
I told him that nothing was ever certain, but that we had detected indications - no more than that - that in the right circumstances, with other aspects, particularly of the North/South institutions, falling into place, John Hume could well be ready to... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Dr Alderdice's concerns are addressed.] Alderdice took surprising comfort from this. Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Extending the Talks Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
I assured them that we were already turning our minds to these issues. Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting ends.] [Signed DF] DAVID FELL Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings on this with the other parties.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral Alliance 27 October 1992 Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State was extremely grateful for the briefing which you prepared at short notice yesterday evening. Dr Paisley came to see the Secretary of State at 8.15 am today. He was accompanied by Mr Robinson, Mr Dodds, Mr Vitty, Mr Wilson and... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
2. The meeting lasted for 20 minutes and was conducted in a friendly and low-key way. Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
DUP Statement 13 October 1992 Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral DUP 13 October 1992 0815 Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: To represent when the Government Team speaks as a delegation.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: To represent when the DUP speaks as a delegation.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: To represent when the UUP speaks as a delegation.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Issue of Ireland Institutions Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The DUP had been alarmed by some of the statements which Mr Maginnis had made in committee last week where he appeared to envisage individual Ministers from Northern Ireland and from the Republic being able to agree joint action without reference to... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
4. In response to a question from Mr Fell designed to tease out the different meanings of the phrase "joint authority", Dr Paisley confirmed that the DUP had no difficulty about the idea of joint consultative arrangements, within a British/ Irish... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6. The Secretary of State and Mr Hanley took note of what the DUP said and avoided being drawn into discussion. Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Not Continuing in the Talks Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State took note. Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings with the other parties.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The document is copied into the Office of the Chairman.] Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting ends.] Signed W R FITTALL Private Secretary Tuesday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral DUP 13 October 1992 0815 Tuesday October 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
DUP Statement 13 October 1992 Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: They join the session.] Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5. Other points which the DUP made were that: - while the DUP could not accept freestanding north/south institutions they could accept "compartmentalised" arrangements within an overall UK/ROI structure; - the DUP offered the thought that what they... Tuesday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr Hanley met representatives of the Alliance Party comprising Messrs Close, Neeson, Morrow, McBride, Ford and Mrs Clark—Glass for about 50 minutes yesterday lunchtime. Mr Fell, Mr D J R Hill and I were also present. [Editor's Note: 'I' refers to Peter May.] Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral Alliance 3 November 1992 Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Concerns Regarding Talks Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The state of the Talks is clarified.] Mr Hanley explained that the PDs had adjourned their meeting to decide on the fate of the Government until Thursday. Irish Ministers would need at some point to make known their ability to continue... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Concerns Regarding Heads of Agreement Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The Alliance's concerns are addressed.] Mr Hanley sought to convince the Alliance that it was still important to maximise what could be achieved from the talks process, leaving Sir Ninian to decide when no further progress could be... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Handling the End of the Talks Process Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
6. Mr Neeson said Bobby Molloy had told them last week that it was in the minds of the Progressive Democrats that they should not collapse the government if that impaired the Northern Ireland Talks process. (The reason being given for the postponement... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Handling the End of the Talks Process: Deadline Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance were sceptical, believing that the effect of the deadline had been dissipated by the Irish Government crisis. The impetuous to negotiate would no longer be there. Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr Fell, responding to Alliance concerns about the lack of a deadline, suggested any reconvened talks might only allow a further four weeks discussion to ensure minds were concentrated. That would provide an opportunity for an accommodation to be... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance were uncertain as to whether all the parties could be delivered on such a basis. The fear was that the DUP would only return to the table if they had a prior commitment from the Irish Government to amend Articles 2 & 3. [Editor's Note:... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
7. The Alliance reported they had had a positive meeting with the SDLP on Monday in which Seamus Mallon had been involved, although not John Hume. The Alliance continued to find the concept of elected Commissioners untenable, not least because if these... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Mr Fell explained that if there were to be an election in the Republic, the talks could either be brought to a halt simply on that basis without further explanation to the public, or via a statement outlining a platform for a possible resumption of the... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
8. In a lengthy discussion about the handling of the end of this talks process, the Alliance argued there was no point disguising failure. Blame would need to be apportioned so the electorate could see what had held the process back. The Alliance, in... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Alliance remained convinced that one could not sell failure as success, and ought not to try. [Editor's Note: This is noted and the meeting ends.] Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
(Comment: this is a reversion to a long standing Alliance theme in which they demonstrate how reasonable they have been in contrast to the other parties. After the 1991 talks had concluded, Alderdice was frequently critical of the other parties, to the... Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings with the other parties.] Tuesday November 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral Alliance 3 November 1992 Tuesday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State met Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley at 2.45 pm in his room at the House of Commons this afternoon. The meeting lasted for 50 minutes. Mr Chilcot and I were also present. [Editor's Note: 'I' refers to W R Fittall] Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting begins.] Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Conclusions of the Bilateral Unionist 5 November 1992 1445 Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Heads of Delegations Meeting Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The discussion moves on.] Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Making Progress Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
6. In response Mr Molyneaux said that he accepted that the "ship should not go dead in the water" but he had come to the conclusion that summitry had been pushed to the limits. Something more practical was now needed. 7. Agreeing, Dr Paisley said... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. The Secretary of State said that he was sure that the Irish would wish to hold to the agreement reached between the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach for an IGC on 16 November. The Unionist refusal to hold talks other than in an intermission between... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Making Progress: Re-Starting Talks Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley both said that they did not believe that they could carry their people with them on this. It would, said Mr Molyneaux, be seen as a "con job". Moreover it was not just a question of Unionist theology over IGCs. There was... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Making Progress: Unionist Objectives Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux and Dr Paisley responded in slightly different ways. Mr Molyneaux assented when the Secretary of State referred him back to his radio interview of a few weeks ago when he had linked the commitment to the successful outcome of the talks. Dr... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
12. Dr Paisley and Mr Molyneaux ended this part of the exchanges by saying that if it was helpful they were prepared to draft a statement of their position on the point. Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Continuing the Secretary of State said that he understood what the Unionists had said but was concerned that there was a serious risk of leaving the people of Northern Ireland with the view that the talks had failed. There had to be some way of... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. Mr Molyneaux agreed with this. The four Northern Ireland parties could talk with the Secretary of State at any time, including while an Irish general election was in progress, though, in response to a question from the Secretary of State, he... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Making Progress: Re-Starting Talks - Consultations Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
17. Mr Molyneaux said that he accepted this but until the Irish general election was over there could be nothing more definite than consultations. 18. Developing this idea Mr Chilcot wondered whether it would be possible for the process after the... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
19. Mr Molyneaux said that he saw attractions in that but Dr Paisley said that he could not go along with "consultations" if they were to occur at Stormont. That would simply appear as if the talks were continuing at before. There would have to be... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The positions are noted and discussion moves on.] Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: This part of the discussion ends.] Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Statement of Progress Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
21. The Unionist leaders said that they were not against this in principle though they thought it would be difficult to agree a common text. Dr Paisley said that if there was to be an agreed text it would be much better if it included a statement of... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Sustaining the Talks Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
21. The Secretary of State said that he saw the force of the argument for keeping the talks going until Tuesday, with him then making a statement to the House of Commons on Wednesday. This might not be convenient for Irish Ministers but they ought to... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
24. Returning to the idea of a statement of common ground achieved, Dr Paisley and Mr Molyneaux said that they had both been disappointed by the lack of progress in agreeing common ground on constitutional issues. Then the Secretary of State's Bangor... Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
25. Summing up the discussion the Secretary of State re-affirmed his wish to secure a positive statement upon the completion of the talks. Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
A Form of Words Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley and Mr Molyneaux both said that they thought that it might be premature for a text to be circulated tomorrow if talks were to continue after the weekend. Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State said that he would reflect on this. It would probably take more than one day to agree a text. Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting ends.] SIGNED W R FITTALL PS/SECRETARY OF STATE OAB EXTN 6462 5 NOVEMBER 1992 Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Agreements reached at this session informed the agenda for further meetings on this topic.] Thursday November 1992Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of the Bilateral Unionist 5 November 1992 1445 Thursday November 1992Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Discussion about SDLP Participation in Talks Thursday December 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Secretary of State's Objectives for 12th December Bilateral Meeting Thursday December 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Discussion on Strand 1 and the General Election Thursday December 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Proposition for Intervals of Freshs Talks Thursday December 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux said that he would have a problem with automatically continuing talks if a different government were to be elected. The Secretary of State said that the assumption would be that the present government would be returned. Thursday December 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editors note: The meeting adjourns.] Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PS/Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Pope Also present Mr Pawson Joint Unionist Delegation Mr Maginnis Mr Robinson Mr Cunningham Mr Dodds Mr... Monday June 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: These delegates are listed as having been present.] Thursday October 1992Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: No decisions are taken, but the meeting record notes suggestions which the Secretary of State will take forward in further discussions,] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: No decisions are taken, but the meeting record notes suggestions which the Secretary of State will take forward in further discussions,] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Outcomes Agreed to Concerning Intervals of Fresh Talks Thursday December 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The government's intentions are noted.] Tuesday April 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Positions on the key issues are noted although not necessarily agreed.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Positions on the key issues are noted although not necessarily agreed.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: Positions on the key issues and the agreement of any settlement are noted although not necessarily agreed and the discussion moves on to Item 5 on the agenda.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5(c) Order of Party Statements Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
5(c) Statements in Alphabetical Order Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
and that based on what Dr Paisley had said on a previous occasion about the proper title of his party he intended to call on him third. Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Secretary of State makes a decision as Chairman on the order of presentations. No further objections are made.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
24. The Secretary of State said that the Unionist delegation had made their points forcibly just as the SDLP had done on Tuesday. [Editor's Note: The Unionist position is noted.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Unionist position is noted.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
1(e) Statement to the Press Friday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: It was agreed.] Friday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
9. Mr Hume said that the Unionists should understand that Governments also had their constituencies. It would be much easier to effect change in matters such as Articles 2 and 3 if all sides showed good will. The Unionists were raising obstacle after... Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
11. The Secretary of State said that he had detected no groundswell of support for a European location. Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
A Neutral Venue Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
A Neutral Venue Not Possible Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Locations Outside the British Isles Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
The Secretary of State replied that a venue outside the British Isles would have the attraction of neutrality but that there would be significant complications, not least because it would entail the removal from Northern Ireland of a number of people... Tuesday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Conclusions of Meeting with Alliance on 7 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Secretary of State's Summary of the Position on the Afternoon of 8 May 1991 Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Mr Hume confirmed that he would be willing to do so. Mr Haughey recalled that Mr Hume had only confirmed that the SDLP proposal was specific to London and Dublin and had indicated a readiness to consider other specific suggestions. Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
[Editor's Note: SDLP proposals are noted.] Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. Mr Molyneaux, speaking calmly, thanked the Secretary of State for his summary of the position. He said he thought the proposal which had been put "would commend itself" but asked for time for reflection. He added that on an initial assessment it... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Secretary of State To Resolve The Matter Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-SDLP Talks
Discussion of John Taylor's Remarks Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Unionists wish this proposal to be noted and discussed with the SDLP.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Location of Strand 2: Written Proposal from British Government Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
No Northern Ireland Venue For Talks Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The Unionist position is noted for the record.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Articles 2 and 3 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
8. The Secretary of State said that the previous Friday he had disabused the Irish Government about Unionist pre-conditions in respect of Articles 2 and 3. The Unionist statement on Saturday may have undone some of this as it could be taken as... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
9. Dr Mawhinney asked whether it would be sufficient at the first meeting in London if the Irish government affirmed that they regarded Articles 2 and 3 as a legitimate issue for discussion in the Strand 2 discussions. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Role of Bilateral Meetings Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Difficulties Caused By Public Statements Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Mr Molyneaux said that Mr Trimble had made statements without his authority. Dr Paisley said that he had told his people that if they appeared on television they would not be part of his team. Mr Maginnis had made himself a laughing stock by saying... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
15. The Secretary of State asked where the meetings would take place. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State commented that the proposal sounded analogous to the Unionist desire to use bilaterals in Strand 1 to find out whether there was enough of a common agenda to make it worthwhile going forward. 10. Dr Mawhinney said that in... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
14. The Secretary of State asked what the Unionists had in mind in moving from the opening meeting into bilateral. Dr Paisley responded how the Unionists needed to know that there was common ground on the agenda. He was assuming that the Republic would... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
16. The Secretary of State said that if in fact the Talks were to move from bilateral to plenaries, at that stage the Unionists' previous position (that these should take place on the Continent) was massively inconvenient. On the first day, all had... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Unionist Paper Shared With The Secretary of State Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Location of Plenary Sessions Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
This omission was rectified with a comment from Mr Molyneaux that nothing should be said about its origins. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
13. Mr Molyneaux commented that they seemed accidentally to have identified rather larger issues than were intended at this stage. He had three groups developing papers: on Articles 2 and 3; internal structure in Northern Ireland; and a new Anglo-Irish... Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Meeting Adjournment Tuesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The communication from the Unionist leaders rejects the proposal of the Secretary of State.] Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Bilateral Exchange Of Letters: Unionist Response To Secretary Of State 16 May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Bilateral Exchange Of Letters: Secretary Of State Reply To Unionist Leaders 16 May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Bilateral Exchange Of Letters: Letter From Tony Pawson To Unionist Leaders 17 May 1991 Thursday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: A letter from the Secretary of State to the two leaders on 16 May (modelled in the following session) indicates that the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State, Dr Paisley, and Mr Molyneaux were all present at this meeting. There may... Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Prime Minister Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Press Release: Unionist Statement of 15 May Wednesday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
[Editor's Note: The positions on the appointment of the independent chairman are noted before discussion moves on to the terms of reference.] Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
Dr Paisley noted that the proposal for the meeting in Dublin had moved away from the initial transitional meeting between Strands Two and Three to be described as taking place towards "the end of June". He was not happy with this change. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
7. Mr Molyneaux then re-emphasised the Unionists' wish that the other parties have sight of their position paper. He said that if last Monday's paper had been treated in such a way, they would have noted the advance it made, and prevented some of the... Monday May 1991Committee: British-Unionist Talks
The Secretary of State suggested that this issue be returned to at a later point. Monday May 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Joint Unionist Position Paper 20 May 1991 Monday May 1991Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
FROM: P N BELL, AUS(L) 4 September 1992 Mr Thomas cc PS/Secretary of State (L&B) PS/Mr Hanley (L&B) PS/PUS (L&B) PS/Mr Fell Mr Alston Mr Watkins Mr Cooke Mr Maccabe Mr Petch Mr Brooker Mr Archer, RID HMA, Dublin TALKS: MR FLYNN Chiefly for the... Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
Acknowledge the Necessity of Political Settlement to Facilitate Security Cooperation to Defeat the IRA Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
[Editor's Note: Pádraig Flynn was present at this meeting.] Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
(We all agreed; Mr Flynn may even have been slightly surprised that we saw matters in this light ourselves). Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
It would be tragic, therefore, he went on, if Dr Paisley chose to frustrate a settlement mouthing 'No Surrender' to the last, rather than go down in history as the man who lead his people into a new, peaceful era. Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
[Editor's Note: Peter Bell was present at this meeting.] Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
[Editor's Note: David Fell was present at this meeting.] Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
[Editor's Note: David Hill was present at this meeting.] Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
Chiefly for the benefit of copy recipients who have not heard the story before, I ought to report a conversation which Mr Flynn had with Mr Fell, Mr D J R Hill and myself in the margins of yesterday's sub-Committee. Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
Common Law and Common Courts on the Island of Ireland Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
(Hmm. But that doesn't invalidate the main part of Mr Flynn's thesis). Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
Rebuke of Mr Hanley Thursday September 1992Committee: British-Irish Bilateral Talks
4. As several other people have now mentioned, Mr Flynn's contribution on the floor, as well as his asides in private, have been more constructive this week than those of any of his colleagues. This, Mr Thorp tells me today, is also recognised amongst... Thursday September 1992Committee: British-SDLP Talks
The Secretary of State went on to conclude the meeting by saying that the position between HMG and the SDLP was a very clear one, and that he would see the Unionists that afternoon. He might also need to consult the SDLP again before the end of the... Monday May 1991