Jump To
Retrieving full text, please wait
Retrieving full text, please wait
IN THE FINAL STAGES OF EDITING A series of talks launched by Peter Brooke, Secretary of State for Northern in Ireland, which began in April 1991, and were carried on intermittently by Brooke and his successor, Patrick Mayhew, until November 1992.
Source material
UK Government Internal Record of Plenary Sessions (The National Archives of the UK, CJ 4/9322-23)
Details
More detailed minutes of the plenary sessions created by civil servants and preserved in the National Archives (CJ 4/9322 and 9323).
Information from the National Archives collection is reproduced under the Open Government Licence V3, https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/.
Associated with
Resource Collections (0):
None
Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: 'It was agreed'.] Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The press statement was agreed. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: No objection was made.] Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: No objection was made.] Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
the Government Team explained the next steps were dependent on Sir Ninian Stephen. The Strand I sub-Committee would however continue to meet. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Alliance Principles and Analysis: An Introductory Presentation from Alliance Leader, Dr John Alderdice to the Inter-Party Conference at Parliament Buildings, Stormont Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Minute's Silence Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment for Lunch Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Dr Paisley, in humourous mood, signified his contentment with this arrangement as did the other leaders of the delegations present. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Making Position Papers Public Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment for tea Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
45. The meeting concluded at 3.50 pm. The first part of the meeting was generally quite relaxed; in the second the atmosphere was more attentive. There seemed to be quite genuine surprise that the Secretary of State's position was constrained by wider... Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
12. Discussion on the Government's opening statement ended at 1630 and the Secretary of State noted that the whole process of clarification of the various position papers was now complete. [Editor's Note: We will now note Peter Brooke's Opening... Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Business Committee Members to Report to Delegations During the Interval Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Report on the Business Committee Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
At this point Mr Cunningham observed that he too had identified common themes in the papers. But if they were agreed the result would be broad principles; it was difficult to work backwards to structures from this point. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team: Secretary of State Minister of State* Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas* Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat: Mr D J R Hill Mr Hallett Others present: Mr Pawson Alliance Party: Dr Alderdice Mr Neeson Mr Dickson Mr McBride Mrs Bell Mr... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Alderdice commented that much useful work had indeed been done, but that too much time should not be spent on this exercise. If there were real convergence, it should be possible to agree general principles pretty promptly. The Minister of State... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. Returning to the Government paper, Dr Paisley made clear that there was a misapprehension about Unionist attitudes. It would be impossible to get anywhere without discussion of specifics, and there seemed to be a reticence [sic] to do this. The... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Working Document: Political Talks Realities and Common Themes - Paragraph 16 Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. Mr Hume said, at this point, that he felt that the discussion that had taken place that day had been unreal. He and the SDLP had thought that they were coming to the process to address the problems of Northern Ireland and possible solutions. All... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Release Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The press release was accepted with one amendment.] Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. Dr Paisley then asked if Item 7 of the Workplan had been reached. The Minister of State replied that business now rested with the very last words of Item 6. All parties had identified common themes; he felt it would be useful to pick eight headings... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Responding (as might be expected to this red rag) Dr Paisley quoted from Section 1 of the 1973 Northern Ireland Constitution Act and proposed that it should be truncated to read "Northern Ireland is a part of ..... the UK and shall not cease to be... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Brooker Mr Hallett Others Present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Maguire Mr Dickson Mrs... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Begin with a Summary of Previous Day's Proceedings Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State PUS Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr D J R Hill Mr Pope Mr Marsh Mr Hallett Mr Watson Others present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Dickson Mr... Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
6. Mr McGimpsey said that, before the teabreak, the meeting had discussed the constitutional position and had then gone on to refer to self-determination. Since then, Mr Hume had raised the question of other models and identities. This was not getting... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement: Alliance Party Amendment Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The comments of the various parties indicate that the Alliance proposal is rejected.] Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
10. The Secretary of State said that in the absence of further comments, he regarded the press statement as approved. It would now be issued. Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Releases by Parties Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State offered the view that the discussion whilst inconclusive in terms of reaching agreed position around the table, had nevertheless been helpful and views on the matter had been "well ventilated". He concluded his opening remarks by... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
All agreed to the text (copy attached). Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
19. Dr Paisley said however that the DUP were about to issue a press statement. The Secretary of State commented that he hoped this would reflect the spirit of avoiding recrimination. Dr Paisley replied that the statement would set out the position as... Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The removal of this section was agreed by all parties.] Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley then intervened to say that there was clearly no general support for a statement on Northern Ireland's status - there was no use "codding". The Minister of State said that he was trying to draw a distinction between a theoretical discussion... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr McGimpsey said that the issue under discussion was not one for victory or defeat. Unionists were seeking a statement which all could live with and there was no point in going forward without that. He had thought that the SDLP could live with the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
12. Referring back to Dr Paisley's earlier statement, the Minister of State denied that the Government Team were attempting to "fudge" the issue - they were rather trying to delineate the various positions. The UUP and SDLP position papers had both... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
14. Mr Mallon, in a departure from his earlier unhelpful interventions, said that the process might be helped if the question of the constitutional status could be broken down between three distinctions. These were (a) the Unionist position, (b) the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Opportunity to Comment on Practical Arrangements Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Copies of Opening Presentations To Be Made Available Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Working Document: Political Talks Realities and Common Themes: Paragraph 18 Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
13. Mr Mallon then outlined his position with regard to the nature of the Northern Ireland problem. He continued by saying that it was the SDLP's well stated view that the core of the problem focused on their belief that two "identities" existed in... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Repeating qualifications like "as long as people wanted" gave encouragement and hope to those who wished to destroy Northern Ireland. He had heard it from the SDLP, the old Liberal Party, the Labour Party etc. The people of Northern Ireland had had... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: This practice was so agreed and followed.] Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Housekeeping Arrangements Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The opening remarks of the Secretary of State recorded in the fuller record of the meeting appear to be uncontroversial, but also lead to the DUP proposal which follows.] Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. Dr Paisley rejoined that he was sure that everyone present was there to try and find a solution and he was certainly not trying to score points. He hoped that there would be a further opportunity to seek clarification on the SDLP's position the... Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
18. The Minister of State then turned to Dr Alderdice for his views. 19. Dr Alderdice opened saying that there was more to the problem of defining identities in the Province than to simply argue from a position of there being only two as the SDLP were... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
14. The Minister of State observed that the fact was that every piece of legislation since 1920 had contained some element of conditionality; the origin of the current formulation lay in the 1949 Act. From the beginning there had always been the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Circulation of John Hume's Statement Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Appointment of a Business Committee Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Mr Robinson, Rev Smyth, Mr Haughey and Mr Close were nominated to this committee]. Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
31. Dr Paisley opened his remarks by stating that he believed the SDLP wished to propose more than equal recognition for their people. But the SDLP in their paper were not saying that all parties were to be recognised. Dr Paisley added that the SDLP... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Statement of the Chairman on Ending the Current Talks Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
17. Mr Hume intervened to say that all this was at the heart of the problem. The SDLP wanted to get the problem defined. Some parties reinforced their own views; this was fair enough but did not necessarily address the problem. Continuing, Mr Hume said... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement To Be Agreed Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Alderdice Amendment: Press Statement Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paisley Amendment: Press Statement Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement - Remove Condemnation of Violence Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
10. Mr Molyneaux asked why if the SDLP believed that Nationalists had been disadvantaged under direct rule they thought their situation would be better under a local administration in which pro-Union groups would be in the majority. Mr Hume said that... Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. The Secretary of State recalled that the previous day's meeting had adjourned to give the other parties an opportunity to consider the SDLP document overnight. Dr Paisley said that there were a number of points he wished to make. He was not trying... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 18: (At this point Mr Donaldson joined the meeting.) Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Off-Record Discussion: Paisley and Brooke Discuss Sir Ninian Stephen's Comments About Admitting Sinn Fein to the Talks] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
DUP Opening Statement Followed by Adjournment Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Hume agreed. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Agree Press Statement Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Publication of Unionist Position Papers Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State confirmed this. [Mr Wilson left the room rather hurriedly]. [Editor's Note: The square brackets appear in the original form of the minutes. There may be an implication that Mr Wilson is going to try to retrieve the UUP position... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paisley Amendment to Press Statement Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Amendments to this effect were made and a copy of the final version of the statement is attached at Annex C.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 36 24. The Minister of State noted that Mr Hume had said that progress would only be possible if each side accepted that the other were not about to change their views and asked what Mr Molyneaux had meant when he had said that 'it is the... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Questioning of UUP to End Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The Minister of State pressed on.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Fairness in Questioning Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. The Minister of State reminded Mr Molyneaux that Mr McGrady had asked him if there was any distinction between being British and being a Unionist and that he had replied that Northern Ireland was a part of the United Kingdom. Dr Paisley, on the... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State said that when he had asked Dr Paisley, on that occasion, how many more questions he was intending to put to Mr Hume he had done so in order to try and establish a timescale and not to limit the UDUP leader's questioning in any way. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State agreed and said that the media's interest in the process generally had not always been helpful. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley said that he had never agreed to the Talks ending on a specific date he had only agreed to a specific period of time [10 weeks] and because of various delays that period had only got under way on 17 June. He had heard that Sir Ninian was... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Molyneaux reminded the Secretary of State that he had told him the previous year that any break in the continuity of the process would be disastrous and said that he still stood by that opinion. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
30. Dr Paisley pointed out that various things that had been said in the parties opening statements had already been leaked to the press and said that in order to set the record straight he was hoping to give them the entire text of his own statement... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Watson Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Delicate Negotiations to be Conducted in a Smaller Circle Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment for Refreshments Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley recommended that the meeting continue to 11.45. [Editor's Note: The meeting does indeed continue until 11.45am.] Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Business for the Afternoon of 24 June Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Move on to Questioning of the Government Team Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: It was so agreed. As a minor correction will be made to the DUP paper later in the meeting, we will not mark 'UDUP Opening Statement - Debate Proposal' as dropped until that point, although formal questioning has ended here.] Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Meeting Adjournment Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. Mr Hume said that he was quite happy to do so. [Mr Haughey left the room at this point to produce copies of the statement]. [...] 12. Dr Paisley asked when the delegations would be receiving copies of Mr Hume's opening statement to which Mr... Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourns here.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
8. The meeting concluded at 3.55 pm. The mood throughout was relaxed. Some of the more purple passages of Dr Paisley's statement including his reference to 'Tory dog-jargon' and to 'a wilful and headstrong woman intoxicated with the poisoned chalice of... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Dr Paisley asked what the plenary meeting would be discussing once the process of clarifying opening statements had been concluded. The Secretary of State referred him to item 6 of the agreed work plan. [Item 6: ' ... It is envisaged that in the... Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Opportunity for Clarification Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: This decision appears to have been taken as the meeting proceeds.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
19. The meeting then broke for coffee. S M Pope Talks Secretariat Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
28. At this point the Secretary of State adjourned the session for refreshments. T WATSON June 1991 Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
At this point Mr Molyneaux left the proceedings at 11.38. Monday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mallon Amendment: Start Meetings Earlier Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State replied, to general amusement, in a way which made clear that it was his own party leader who was most opposed to this. The 10.30 start time represented a generally acceptable compromise. Mr Mallon took the point. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The Business Committee recommendations stand, the Mallon amendment having been rejected.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Proposal to Plenary: Recommendations of the Business Committee on Interactions with the Media Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Proposal to Plenary: Blackout of media interaction to include NIO officials Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
At this point Mr Hume observed that he had been stopped by the media on the way in and had the words of "another party leader" quoted to him, but had declined to say anything. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. Mr Molyneaux asked whether Sir Ninian Stephen was included in the ban. Mr Robinson observed that he thought the procedural guidelines for the second strand precluded Sir Ninian from making any statements; he disagreed with the Secretary of State's... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's note: it was so agreed: see comment on 'made clear to delegates and others that a total blackout of proceedings in Parliament Buildings should now apply'] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: No objection can feasibly made to this.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Suggestion to check in with delegations at 11.30 Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
6. The meeting therefore adjourned at 10.45. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Alliance Party Proposals for an Amended Programme Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Meeting of the Business Committee Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State replied that he wished to have some sense of the parties' views in plenary session first; to move straight into the Business Committee would be premature. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Mr Hume observed that the whole situation had been created by the presumption of a deadline. He had heard from the media this morning that Dr Paisley was saying that the deadline was now 8 July, not 10 July as had previously seemed to be the case.... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
If Mr Molyneaux's technical points were modest, it should be possible to deal with them across the table. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. Mr Hume said that he accepted the Secretary of State's points, and that he appreciated the Alliance Party's motives. There was now some doubt about the precise deadline; he had heard about it outside the door rather than in a meeting. He wished to... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Hume repeated that there was a deadline in existence which nobody wished to discuss. The Secretary of State reminded him that the Unionist leaders had said in the House of Commons that were the Intergovernmental Conference to take place on 16 July... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Agenda: That Parties Present Views in Turn Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: This approach is adopted.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
14. Mr Hume then delivered a further response to the paper. He said that it could not work for a number of reasons. Implicit in it was the re-negotiation of existing understanding. And it was discourteous, to say the least, to ask another sovereign... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Opportunity for Business Committee to Speak Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
16. The Minister of State accordingly reported Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
that the Business Committee that morning had first dealt with the media, and then moved on to intensification. He had invited the Unionists to speak first to their paper. They had said that it still stood, and that they wanted reactions. (At this point... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment for Lunch and a Meeting of the Business Committee Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Query about "Two weeks" Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Robinson said that while he took on board Mr Hume's point, he still felt that elements of the Alliance paper were ultra vires; Dr Paisley added that some of it was an amendment to the Unionist paper. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
20. At this point, Mr Mallon asked for clarification of the status of the two papers. The Secretary of State repeated that the Business Committee had met the previous evening to discuss the content and timing of the next fortnight's work. The Alliance... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
21. Mr Hume observed that in the terms of the 26 March statement there was no fixed time for the first strand. The Secretary of State would decide, after consultation, when to move to the second strand. It now appeared that that could not be completed... Tuesday June 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
Dr Alderdice's final comment concerned the Unionist version of the No 10 meeting, the Secretary of State's version and expressed the hope that they would soon have "the authorised version". He said they looked forward to receiving and studying it. Monday May 1991Committee: British-Alliance Talks
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourns.] KEN LINDSAY 20 May 1991 Monday May 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting broke for tea at 3.55 pm. The mood of the first half had been generally quite business like. Mr McGrady's questioning had been polite and obviously well prepared; Mr Molyneaux's answers supremely cautious. The other delegates had watched... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State, observing that the time was now 12:40, said that there appeared to be no meeting of minds. The Alliance Party's proposal would exceed the terms of the 26 March statement and would therefore involve the assent of others not... Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
During the adjournment the plenary session meets, adjourns for delegations to consider the Alliance proposals, and then reconvenes before adjourning for lunch. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
30. At this point the Secretary of State proposed an adjournment for tea, with a resumption at 1605. EC HALLETT Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Status: Unionist Amendment Move Item 11 Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Nature of the Northern Ireland Community Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Nature of the Northern Ireland Community: UUP Position Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Nature of the Northern Ireland Community: Alliance Position Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Nature of the Northern Ireland Community: UDUP Position Tuesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
The Alliance Party noted that the inter-relationship between the various strands of the process had become vitally important. They agreed that, if there was little prospect of agreement, parties would be operating in a vaccum [sic] and would react... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
13. Dr Paisley referred to the Secretary of State's remarks about the status of Northern Ireland in his statement of 5 July 1990. What he had said then was correct, but it was also necessary to take account of the fact that there had been a change in... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
21. Mr Molyneaux commented that his ideal was a devolved Government in which both communities would be represented and might approach the UK Government together on matters concerning Northern Ireland. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[At this point, the members of the Business Committee joined the plenary session]. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
This plenary meeting of Strand One of the Talks took place in Parliament Buildings between 1605 and 1730 on Tuesday 25 June. The work of this session involved further consideration of the document entitled Workplan Item 6, particularly key points 4 and... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Comment 13. This session saw a further development of the more relaxed and yet deeper interchange of ideas which had began in the previous session. There was also the beginnings of a negotiation in the exchanges between Mr Robinson and Mr Hume. TALKS... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Business in the Evening Session and Following Day Would Continue to Deal with Workplan Item 6 Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: It was so agreed.] Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Local Institutions Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Nature of the Northern Ireland Community: SDLP Position Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
20. Dr Paisley said that we were addressing the heart of the problem. The Nationalist community had taken the position that their real loyalty lay with the Southern Government. For thisreason, they did not accept the Government security forces and... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
22. Mr Hume said that the difficulty was not disagreement about solutions but disagreement about the nature of the problem. That was the basis for the approach in the SDLP paper which set out their view of the problem. Mr Molyneaux had said that the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
23. Dr Paisley said that as Mr Hume had given his version of history, it was necessary to give the Protestant version. Mr Hume had referred to Nationalist fears in Northern Ireland. There had, however, through history been a series of attempts to... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. The Secretary of State asked if anybody wished to address item 7. Mr Trimble said that it would be necessary to consider what was the appropriate range of legislative powers which might be devolved. Those in the 1973 Act had, for example, been drawn... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
30. Rev McCrea said that all parties wanted harmonious relations with the Irish Republic. There clearly were areas of mutual interest. It was necessary to remember, however, that respect was a two way process. No Unionist wished to interfere in the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Three Relationships Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
26. Mr Hume asked whether Unionists accepted the SDLP description of two identities. Mr Trimble commented that he had tried to clarify Mr Hume's definition but without success. The Secretary of State asked whether Mr Hume' s definition of the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
27. Dr Alderdice said that Gladstone had made a fundamental mistake in attempting to solve the problem by constructing boundaries. This simply exacerbated the problem by creating new minorities. Lloyd George had also made the mistake of attempting to... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. The Secretary of State began by asking Dr Paisley to expand on his comment at an earlier session about nationalists saying to unionists that they did not accept the Government in Northern Ireland. Surely they accepted the authority of the Government... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State proposed that it would be better to tackle these issues the following day, when minds were fresh. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Hume to Ask Irish Government to Delay the Ango Irish Conference Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
45. This heart to heart appeal across the table, following absorbing and fundamental discussion of the previous hour was clearly intended and timed (it being just before 8.30 pm) to have a significant impact. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Unfortunately Mr Hume had no time to do more than mutter that we had heard what Dr Paisley had said before. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. Mr McCrea countered this by saying that experience at local council level showed the SDLP only willing to share power in a partial way. He said that the Protestant community in his constituency knew very well about the disadvantages of Direct Rule... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. Mr Robinson brought the discussion on to the need to accommodate the two distinct communal identities. He said that the British and Irish identities had found expression in various ways, both cultural and political but that a political identity... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Business Committee Report and Adjournment Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State said that the Business Committee had not resolved its problems and would resume at 10.00 am the following morning. Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Comment 49. This session involved serious discussion of some fundamental issues in a way which most delegates clearly found both fascinating and encouraging. A number of statements from the SDLP in particular seemed calculated to reassure Unionists... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
10. Dr Alderdice commented that like the Unionists his predecessor had not been consulted in any way prior to the signing of the Anglo Irish Agreement. He asked unionists to think about why the British Government had treated them in this way over a... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Mr Hume said that it was an indignity for Northern Ireland that local politicians were not directly involved in Government. This devalued the political process. It would be obviously be better to have such local involvement. 4. The Secretary of... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr Hill Mr Rodell Also Present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Neeson Mr Bell Mr Dickson Mr McBride Mr... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
A plenary meeting of strand one of the Talks took place at Parliament Buildings between 10.30 am and 11.35 am on 26 June. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley to Continue Questioning Mr Hume Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: Dr Paisley recommences the discussion of the North/South relationship.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
External Relationships: Dealing with Articles 2 and 3 Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
12. Mr Molyneaux said that in any future arrangements, anything similar to Article 4 of the Anglo-Irish Agreement would not be acceptable since this envisaged the Conference determining which matters might be devolved, thus determining the role and... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
20. Turning to item 12, the Secretary of State said that he detected general support for the need for good and harmonious relations with the Irish Republic. It was more difficult to decide whether these should be institutionalised. 21. Mr Molyneaux... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
24. The Secretary of State then invited comments on item 14. 25. Mr Hume said that it was necessary to give adequate attention to all the relationships. The SDLP would have views on both formal and informal relations at different levels on EC matters... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[6. Dr Paisley explained that he wished to speak that afternoon in a debate at Westminster on European Union and would have to leave. Mr Mallon challenged his sense of priorities and Dr Paisley retorted that no-one had done as much to clear their diary... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
People Wait Their Turn to Speak Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
He [the Secretary of State] asked Mr Molyneaux to clarify his earlier remarks about developments in Eastern Europe. Mr Molyneaux replied that accession of the Eastern European countries would change the character of the European Community and bring an... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
39. Mr Robinson, resuming his earlier line of questioning, said that Mr Hume had argued that Unionists were not pro-British but rather against joining the Irish Republic. The Sinn Fein identity was basically anti-British. To what extent was there a... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: Calm appears to be restored.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
13. The Minister of State asked Mr Robinson if he accepted that in the real world the only way that Articles 2 and 3 would be removed was in the context of a wider agreement. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Robinson said that in real political world [sic] it was not possible for Unionists to have a positive relationship with the Republic unless Articles 2 and 3 were removed but that he accepted that in order to achieve that it would be necessary to... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment for Coffee Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Given the excellent tone of the final session of the previous day the tone of the exchanges at the beginning of this meeting was somewhat disappointing. The Unionist delegations were clearly unhappy about being lectured by Mr Hume on the ineptitude of... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourns.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr Hill Mr Hallett Others Present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Neeson Mr Close Mr Dickson Mr Morrow Mr McBride Mrs... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Robinson asked, with regard to the re-assessment of nationalist views, whether this had become possible because the posture of the British Government was no longer seen as aggressive towards Irish nationalism, Mr Hume replied that the... Tuesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley said that Mr Robinson had been pointing out to the SDLP that it was the fact that the British Government had adopted a new attitude to the Nationalist community which had made it possible for that community to review its attitudes and that... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley disputed the fact that the Irish Constitution was a product of the Civil War and said that far from representing the will of the people it had been passed by a very narrow majority. The Unionists point of view was that Articles 2 and 3 were... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting began at 11.50 and concluded at 12.50. It resumed consideration of the checklist of issues entitled ''General Principles and Perceived Political Realities and Requirements: Key Points". Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Avoid Repetition of Points Concerning Articles 2 and 3 Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Deal with Articles 2 and 3 in Strand Two Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
17. Mr Maginnis asked whether Dr Alderdice disapproved of his suggestion of using a Bill of Rights to, encompass the aspiration to unity. Dr Alderdice replied that he had no problem with a Bill of Rights, but did not see this as a substitute for... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
18. The Secretary of State said that he hoped that Item 15, dealing with "relevant external relationships", could be looked at in the context of Strand One. [Editor's Note: The Secretary of State now moves discussion on to the next item on the Workplan.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
10. Mr Robinson suggested that there were three ways to approach Articles 2 and 3, you could say that they were wrong and should be removed, you could say that a new agreement should be reached first and then Articles 2 and 3 should be re-examined, or... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State asked Mr Hume if he thought that some of the reluctance in the Republic to abandon Articles 2 and 3 arose from a fear that to do so would undermine the very identity of the Irish people. Mr Hume said that this was a question that... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Involvement of Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
(Mr Hume interjected that the SDLP had always represented their own people directly). Mr Robinson confirmed that Mr Hume's attitude was a helpful factor but there were many other issues which needed to be addressed. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: This item is marked as adopted without objection as some consensus is reached on the headline statements on the Workplan and discussion will now move forward to the next item on the list.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment for Lunch Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Comment 27. This was an interesting session which saw quite a lot of coded negotiation going on, especially between Mr Robinson and Mr Hume (see paragraph 19 et seq). Mr Molyneaux said very little and was clearly disturbed by what was happening. E C HALLETT Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. Mr Hume said that emotive issues were being raised. Delegates could continue to "wave flags" or seek a more constructive way of moving forward. The SDLP could say, for example, that Northern Ireland was an unnatural creation whose borders had been... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. Mr Maginnis said that he was worried that the SDLP were drawing away from the core issue of Articles 2 and 3. The question had become more acute as a result of the Irish Government being given an improper say in Northern Ireland through the... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
15. Mr Trimble said, with regard to Articles 2 and 3, that they were not helpful in achieving stability. A stable framework was necessary if progress was to be made. Such stability could not exist if efforts were made to change the framework. Articles... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourned.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Politics/Defeating Terrorism: Items 18 and 19 [Security Benefits of Political Agreement] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Politics/Defeating Terrorism: Resolution to the Problem Lies with the Two Governments Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
18. The meeting adjourned at 3.45 pm. It had been cordial and generally constructive throughout. All delegations had avoided taking extreme positions and these seemed to be genuine attempts, especially on the part of Messrs. Robinson, Hume and Mallon,... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Maginnis said that he would still like clarification of why abolishing Articles 2 and 3 would be a "body blow" to Northern Ireland nationalists. This now seemed to be the only justification put forward for retaining them. Mr Hume replied that it was... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Hume commented that the discussion so far had confirmed his view that the central relationship to be addressed was the North/South one. 19. Mr Robinson said that he would like clarification of some concepts in the SDLP paper. With regard to... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr Hill Mr Lindsay Also present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Neeson Mrs Bell Mr McBride Mr Morrow Mr... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
This plenary meeting of Strand One of the Talks took place between 16.10 and 17.30 hours on Wednesday 26 June. The work of the session involved further consideration of the document entitled Workplan Item 6 beginning with key point 19 on the potential... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
6. Mr Mallon, in a lengthy and penetrating analysis which appeared to command the interest and respect of the Unionist delegates, said that it was important to understand what motivated people to become involved in terrorism. It was true that there was... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Politics/Defeating Terrorism: Item 20 Political Consensus for Security Policies Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. In key point 20 of the workplan Mr Mallon suggested that desirability should be changed in a way to reflect that it was essential to have a political consensus for security policies. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
It was agreed that the substance of this sub-heading had been discussed already. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Politics/Defeating Terrorism: Item 21 Local Input into Security Policy Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Constitutional Politics/Defeating Terrorism: Item 21 Local Input into Security Policy Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Molyneaux made the point that giving the elected politicians a few seats on the Police Authority would be worse than nothing in terms of an input into security policy. Mr Robinson then asked if the Government thought it unwise to determine at this... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Robinson read from Command Paper 7950 which referred to a devolved administration having "a voice" in security matters. This meant that they were allowed to give views but had no hands on control over security or policing. He asked if there was any... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: This decision is to reflect the unanimity of the SDLP and Unionists delegations. The Government delegation is unable to accept the proposal to guarantee 'a say in every aspect of' security policy. The Alliance Party's position on this... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
10. Mr Hume said that he regarded this discussion on security as central to the Talks process. Agreement across the political divide was very important in the fight against terrorism. Over the generations, an ideology of dying for Ireland had been... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. Mr Mallon said he saw a potential danger in having an input into security policy but without having any control. In the eye of the public politicians would have responsibility without authority. He thought that as long as one British soldier... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The key item from the Workplan does not go far enough for the SDLP and Unionist delegations, and we do not mark it as adopted as both delegations imply that token input would be worse than no input.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Individual Rights [Bill of Rights] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Future Business Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Status of Items Beyond Strand 1 in Papers Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Secretary of State to Provide Written Copies of Speaking Notes Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: It was so decided.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
K Lindsay Talks Secretariat Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Those present: Government Team Secretary of State Minister of State Mr Fell Mr Pilling Mr Thomas Mr McNeill Talks Secretariat Mr Hill Mr Hallett Mr Pope Also present Mr Pawson Alliance Party Dr Alderdice Mr Close Mr Neeson Mrs Bell Mr... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
A plenary meeting of Strand One of the Talks was held at Parliament Buildings between 1835 and 1940 on Wednesday 26 June. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. Rev McCrea asked how an individual could get to a situation where he became a terrorist. One of the factors would be the influence of society around him and perhaps growing up in an atmosphere where there was an antipathy to the Security Forces. The... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Farren said that there was general support within the SDLP for a Bill of Rights and he welcomed the fact that all the other parties supported this proposal also. A Bill of Rights would help in vindicating individual rights and the SDLP would be... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. Mr Mallon then asked how the concept of a Bill of Rights could be squared with the existence of emergency legislation in Northern Ireland - the SDLP were unclear as to how these two contrasting themes could sit well together. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government Team to Produce Paper on a Bill of Rights Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
and the Secretary of State confirmed that the Government Team would do its best to provide a short paper. Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: Given the level of consensus, the key point as listed in the workplace is adopted.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Endorsement: Item 24 By the People of Northern Ireland Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
This possibility had been referred to in his statement of 26 March and, given the reference that had been made to it by the parties during the course of the Talks process, he did not feel that it required further significant discussion. One aspect of... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Endorsement: Include Items 25 and 26 [Proposal for Endorsement by Simultaneous Referenda in the North and South of Ireland] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
11. The Minister of State said that the proceedings would finish at 20.00 hours but before that the Secretary of State might draw together some of the strands arising from the discussions this week. This would provide a backcloth to papers which... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. The Secretary of State opened discussion by noting that the meeting had still to complete discussion of Item 22 under the checklist entitled "General Principles and Perceived Political Realities and Requirements: Key Points", and invited Mr Robinson... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Mallon then community rights and Mr Mallon said that he felt that it was a shame that the possibilities contained in it were neglected, especially since he had come under some criticism from the SDLP for voting for the legislation on the basis that... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
15. Mr McGimpsey said that the Unionists had listened to the SDLP arguments and would consider them. [Editor's Note: An 'other' decision reflects the serious attention given to the SDLP position and the promise to consider their proposal.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: All parties accept Item 24, endorsement by the people of Northern Ireland, although debate around a wider validation process continues.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
20. The Secretary of State then moved to sum up discussion at the end of Item 6 noting that the debate had been valuable and that he had found the interchange interesting and constructive. The aim of workplan Item 6 had been to identify common themes... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The next step was to summarise the position which had been reached, to identify the areas of agreement, the principles which should apply and the specific issues on which further discussion would be necessary. [Editor's Note: The working document is... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Comment 22. Another stimulating session. The SDLP case for joint referenda was put with considerable vigour and Unionist delegates might well have been favourably impressed by the determination it revealed on the part of the SDLP to smash Sinn Fein.... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Turning to Mr Farren, the Minister of State noted that the latter had, in an earlier session, touched on arrangements by which any Bill of Rights might be entrenched. This was an important issue against the background that Parliament could pass one... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
21. The Secretary of State continued by saying that he looked forward to reading the papers which the parties had agreed to contribute and which would set out their views of the political realities we faced and the requirement which flowed from that... Wednesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Checklist Wednesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
The checklist was then distributed. Wednesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
Working Document: Workplan Item 6 Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
10. Mr Haughey intervened to say that the SDLP view on the subject was widely known but that he felt that it would be worth repeating. Endorsement, so far as the SDLP were concerned, was the most essential and crucial feature in the whole process. The... Wednesday June 1991Committee: Office of the Strand 1 Chairman (British Government Delegation)
[Editor's Note: The document will be made available to the plenary session when it returns to discussion of constistutional issues on 1 July.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Checklist Wednesday June 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
He said that the meeting had discussed press relations, and had reached the view that information flowing out of the process had reduced but had not yet ceased; in fact it had accelerated over the weekend and the publication of a Unionist document in... Monday July 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Reiterate Media Embargo Monday July 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
[Editor's Note: It was so done.] Monday July 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
Use of Remaining Time Monday July 1991Committee: Business Committee Strand 1
The session adjourns and delegates join the plenary session at 1420. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
They were glad to see that the SDLP were taking steps to counter the 1918 Election argument. That said, Unionists remained doubtful that simultaneous referenda would be of any value and were especially unconvinced that a referendum in the Republic... Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting began at 2.20pm and adjourned for tea at 3.55pm. It had before it the various papers which had been circulated on Friday 29 June [sic]; these are attached. [Editor's Note: We do not have these attachments.] Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Re-emphasise Press Embargo Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. Dr Alderdice commented that he understood that a delegation had the right to publish in full any document selectively leaked to the media; the Alliance Party had not yet published a document of theirs which had been quoted from, but reserved the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
4. The Minister of State also reported that the Business Committee had discussed the use of time. He had said that he was encouraged by the papers which had emerged before the weekend; they seemed to represent accommodation and convergence. Common... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
12. The Minister of State brought this part of the discussion to an end by stating that the first two headings of the Government paper were identical with those in the Schedule to the Workplan; it would be sensible to start discussing them. In answer... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Political Talks: Realities and Common Themes Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 16: DUP Amendment Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
HMG to Clearly State Position of Status of Northern Ireland Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State answered that he did not know the minds of those who drew up the Agreement. But he could guess. No realistic options other than Northern Ireland being part of the United Kingdom or part of a united Ireland had commanded even... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 16: UUP Amendment Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
24. Mr Empey recalled that he had made the suggestion that the best available definition of Northern Ireland's constitutional status should be put on the table. He reiterated that this was what the Secretary of State had said in Parliament on 5 July... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Vote on UUP Amendment Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State replied that the Unionist paper was only a partial quotation of what the Secretary of State had said. It had omitted the qualification; HMG' s position was as in Section 1 of the 1973 Constitution Act. That Act had been on the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 16: DUP Revised Amendment Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
(At this point Mr Sammy Wilson left the meeting.) Mr McCrea added that clarification was necessary. The Government genuinely owed it to people to come up with answers; it was time that realities were faced. Article 1 of the Anglo-Irish Agreement... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
23. Mr Hume wondered what all this meant in terms of real problems. The discussion was quite unrealistic, but came back to the SDLP statement that the real problem was a conflict of identities. It was necessary to find a new way of accommodating them... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
25. At this point the Minister of State proposed a 15-minute break for tea. S A MARSH Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
A plenary session of Strand One of the Talks took place at Parliament Buildings between 16.17 and 17.25 on 1 July. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. Mr Mallon, having caught the Minister of State's eye, opened discussion by saying that the meeting had spent some considerable time debating the legality or illegality of partition and the constitutional status. While this had been a "very... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 16: SDLP Position Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Vote on Dr Paisley's Formula Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley, choosing to be drawn, said that it was not the intention that anything should be voted on. The Minister of State concurred, noting that voting was not part of the procedure for this strand and reminding all present that nothing was agreed... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
SDLP to Affirm Support for the Statement of Northern Ireland's Status in the 1973 Constitution Act Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
(NB: the Minister of State's summing up and the general tone of the discussion were not then helped by Mr Hume saying that the SDLP wished to see the Act "scrapped"). Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Move on to Paragraph 18 Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley, however, said that he thought the difficult and controversial issues raised by paragraph 17 ought to be discussed first. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 16: Alliance Amendment Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
That said, there were other facts which had to be set out so far as Northern Ireland was concerned. The particular quarrel to which he had referred transcended Northern Ireland and affected other parts of the British Isles. In addition Northern... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Hume repeated that the SDLP accepted the de facto position but this could not be taken in isolation - there were other de facto issues to be addressed alongside it. Dr Paisley intervened and said that Mr McGimpsey had asked Mr Mallon about his... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
11. Dr Paisley said that this was not so - Mr Mallon had clearly said that he wished to see the 1973 Constitution Act "scrapped". It appeared that HMG thought that some play on words could achieve agreement but the problem was that any formula could be... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Paragraph 16: Government Amendment Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley said that others would seek to qualify that statement by saying that they did not support the position but merely accepted the fact. Dr Paisley then prayed in aid Mr Faulkner's address to the Northern Ireland Parliament following the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Move on to Structures Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Government to Produce a Paper Based on Further Submissions on the Question of Local Institutions and Structures Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
18. During a slightly confused ending to the afternoon session, the Minister of State said that the Government Team would produce, quickly, a short paper which summarised the outcome of the afternoon's discussion and look forward to submissions from... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The session was adjourned until 1830. S POPE Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
A plenary meeting of Strand 1 of the Talks took place at Parliament Buildings between 1908 and 2030 on 1 July. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Vitty, referring back to the UDUP position at the Business Committee that morning, said that the UDUP had said as much earlier He was glad to hear the Alliance Party agreeing with the UDUP. Dr Paisley said that there was no point in seeking to... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
16. In response to a question from the Minister of State as to how the UDUP defined "structures", Dr Paisley said that what they wished to discuss was a future Northern Ireland Assembly and all its relationships, whether with the rest of the UK, with... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley said that he felt that this was a helpful way forward: parties giving papers to the Government only reduced the risk of leakage. Mr Cunningham also agreed while entering the caveat that all parties would need time to read and digest the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. The Minister of State opened the discussion by reflecting on the long and useful debate which had taken place in the previous plenary sessions regarding the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
4. The Minister of State, in reflecting on these, suggested that further exploration of what each of the parties meant when using the term "identity" in their stated positions would be useful for it seemed to him that a degree of movement on this... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Clarification of Purpose of Discussion Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Minister of State replied that he intended the discussion to be conducted on a similar basis to that of the afternoon plenaries; these had been generally exploratory but inconclusive. However he continued that should agreement be reached in this... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Mallon agreed not to pursue the matter further. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
8. During these exchanges Dr Hendron joined the SDLP delegation at 19.15. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
17. At this point Mr Vitty joined the UDUP delegation at 19.25. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
38. The Minister of State in drawing the session to a close, thanked all those who participated for a helpful discussion which had certainly explored many aspects, but which had ended inconclusively. [Editor's Note: No decisions are made, but the... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Early Finish to Allow Delegates to Catch Up on Analytical Work Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
9. The Minister of State replied that previous exchanges with the party leaders had led to a decision that the evening session would not go beyond 20.30. If agreement on this subject was arrived at before then, the session would indeed be completed... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
22. Mr Haughey replying to Dr Alderdice stated that he did not dispute the existence of a third identity, but from his experience the "SDLP" did not meet people from this "identity" very often. Mr Haughey then asked the Alliance leader whether he... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Release: Include Mr Molyneaux Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Release: Remove references to the Somme Anniversary Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
41. Dr Paisley, in somewhat humorous mood, suggested that Mr Mallon sometimes raised these points out of a sense of Irish humour. Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
42. The Minister of State, amidst considerable laughter, agreed to include the name of Mr Molyneaux in the press release Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
27. Mr Empey outlined the UUP's belief that people who lived in Northern Ireland were one community. He continued however by saying that the UUP recognised that that community would have different outlooks and aspirations but there seemed to be a... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
and stated that the next plenary session would commence at 10.30 am, the following morning. T WATSON Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The working paragraphs from 1 July are not included in the paper as no agreement is reached (c.f. comments by the Minister of State when reporting to the Secretary of State at 2 July session). The paper will be revived in 1992, next... Monday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting began at 10.40 and concluded at 11.25. Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Timetable for the Talks Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The discussions were in danger of degenerating into a university debating society. We were reaching the point where to continue them would be counter-productive. There had been moments of understanding in the talks so far, but there was an increasing... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. The Secretary of State said that he was conscious of the need to address this problem Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
but nevertheless thought it would be useful to begin with an account of the previous day's proceedings. Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Alderdice indicated that he too wished to address the timetable question but was content to have the account of yesterday's proceedings first. Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. The Minister of State continued that there was a divergence of views between those who felt the time had now been reached for moving to detailed discussion of structures and those who felt that we should continue the search for agreement on general... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
6. The Minister of State said that Mr Hume had raised the the implications of the 16 July conference meeting for the talks timetable. He had made clear to him that the Government Team were planning to continue discussions this week and possibly next.... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Call to Order Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Complaining that he didn't like being shouted at, but nonetheless subdued Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Secretary of State to Meet Party Leaders to Determine how to Conclude Matters Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Summary of Previous Day's Proceedings Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. Dr Alderdice asked for clarification of media reports of statements by Dr Paisley the previous night about a meeting with Mr Haughey. Dr Paisley replied that this was nothing to do with this Conference. It had been put to him by a journalist that he... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
16. The Secretary of State then summed up the position. The Unionist position was understood. The 26 March statement had envisaged a gap between specific dates. As a result of the delay in moving to plenary discussions, the Unionists had asked if the... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley asked how long the Secretary of State envisaged the process of consulting party leaders would take. The Secretary of State replied that he hoped to complete the exercise before lunch. E C HALLETT Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Editor's Note: The session adjourned for the meetings with the party leaders to take place. We currently do not have a record of these meetings. The plenary session only resumes the following morning at 10.05am by which point it appears to have been... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting began at 10.05 and concluded at 10.29. Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Invitation for Delegates to Comment Prior to Adjournment Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Vote of Thanks to Secretary of State Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State thanked Mr Hume and Dr Paisley for these remarks. 16. The Secretary of State said that if there were no further comments he would close the discussion by thanking all who were present. Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Dr Paisley said that any question regarding 16 July should be addressed to the two Governments rather than It was not the Unionists who were bringing the current process to an end. They had made clear throughout that they would not continue the... Tuesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. The Secretary of State said that he recognised that, but the present process was governed by the 26 March statement, which set out the terms for the talks. The press statement had been drafted to reflect that. 8. Dr Paisley said that it was not... Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
13. Dr Paisley associated himself with Mr Molyneaux's remarks. The talks had been frank and open. Delegates had spoken their minds and had shown a willingness to listen to others. There had been a "wholesome debate" on matters where there was a "deep... Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
18. The Secretary of State said that he thought the process would be better served if there were no comments until after his House of Commons statement. Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
E C HALLETT [Editor's Note: The record of the 1991 plenary sessions chaired by Peter Brooke end here.] Wednesday July 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Mallon then asked whether this meant no Strand Three matters could be discussed in Strand One also. Dr Paisley responded by saying that there was no question of discussing the Union in Strand Three, if that was what Mr Mallon had meant. If... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Timing of the Afternoon Session Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
It was agreed that the second morning session could run to 13.00 hour, and that the afternoon session would recommence at 14.45. PETER MAY Talks Secretariat 9 March 1992 RN/8328 Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2 (a) Committees (SDLP Proposal) - 1155 Meeting Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
6. The Secretary of State reminded those present that the central purpose was to provide working arrangements with which all were relaxed and to clear the ground for a swift and smooth start after the election. What needed to be addressed was who was... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
All Members of the Delegations Have an Opportunity to Express Views on Arrangements in the Talks Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Molyneaux and Rev Smyth Leave and Mr Empey Stand In for Mr Molyneaux Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: This had been previously arranged.] Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting was then adjourned for lunch and Dr Paisley said that a photographer would be corning into the building to photograph Mr Molyneaux and himself, but that this was completely outside the business of the conference. TALKS SECRETARIAT 9 March... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State, after inviting anybody else to comment (to which there was silence), [Editor's Note: Silence is taken as 'no objection'.] Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
then concluded that part of the discussion and pointed out that an opportunity still existed for it to be raised at the Business Committee. Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
5. Handling the Press: Election Campaign Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
7. Mr Robinson took up Mr Hume's point about negotiating policy matters in plenary session and said that he did not believe the real arguments could be thrashed out in that forum. It was for precisely that reason that a working committee was suggested.... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
He said, in response to Mr Hume, that the Business Committee would look at the agenda and may make recommendations in relation to a Strand One working committee. This would deal with policy and would in effect be a negotiating forum. It would however... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
He also mentioned that he had authorised a press release to correct an untrue "Irish News" story. Dr Paisley agreed that personal attacks needed response. However, he would not like to think when the Election was called that all discussion round the... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
20. Dr Paisley suggested everyone would be obtaining "The Independent" on Tuesday which, again, provoked laughter and general comments from around the room. The Secretary of State said he was very conscious of the clay figure having pins stuck into it! Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Nominations to the Business Committee Be Completed Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
4. Practical Arrangements for the Rest of the Week - Business Committee Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
4. Practical Arrangements for the Rest of the Week - Plenary on Wednesday Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Tthe [sic] Secretary of State replied no, having cleared the ground already today. Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
4. Practical Arrangements for the Rest of the Week - Informal Meetings and Preparation of Papers Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State foresaw no difficulties with either of Mr Molyneaux's suggestions. Mr Robinson (DUP) said each party would no doubt wish to do that. Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement - Amend Final Sentence Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The change is agreed and made.] Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement - Other Minor Amendments Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: All changes are made.] Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Secretary of State then asked if the statement was acceptable and no further comments were forthcoming. (Copy of agreed and subsequently released press statement is attached - Annex A). Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: Mr McClelland of the SDLP joins the committee for the first time.] Wednesday June 1991Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Molyneaux outlined the importance he placed on the Business Committee which would deal with administrative and procedural matters drawing two delegates from each party. This would be chaired by the Minister of State. 8. Dr Paisley agreed that... Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Mr Molyneaux drew Dr Alderdice's attention to the Strand One sub-committees which could be established by the Strand One committee if necessary. Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Statement - Add Mention of PM's Greetings Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
27. The Secretary of State then read over several amendments. The additional paragraph would say, ''The Secretary of State reported the Prime Minister's good wishes, conveyed this morning, which the participants noted with appreciation". Monday March 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The meeting began at 21.52 and concluded 22.15. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Press Release Regarding Transition to Strands II and III Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Statement to the Plenary (12 June 1992) Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
SUMMARY RECORD OF A PLENARY MEETING HELD IN PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS ON THE EVENING OF 12 JUNE 1992 Government Team Secretary of State Mr Hanley PUS Mr Thomas Mr Bell Mr Maccabe Mr Hill Talks Secretariat Mr May Also Present Mr Fittall Mr... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
2. The Government Team began by apologising for the long delay in convening the plenary meeting. Considerable care had, however, been needed to reach the conclusion the plenary was being invited to sanction. Difficulties persisted and before reading... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
3. The UDUP delegation explained that it had not been possible to consult their whole delegation to gain their support for the proposed draft statement. The Party chairman, together with one of the Party's MPs and a leading member of the executive were... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
All Parties Not Agreed Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
6. The SDLP delegation said they could not accept the amendment proposed. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Party Leaders All Agreed Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
This was a statement of the facts. They rejected suggestions that undue haste had been used in preparing the draft statement as the delegations had spent all day trying to agree it. 7. The Government Team said it understood that all sides were tired... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Issue a Clear Minute Detailing Dr Paisley's Assurances Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
8. The SDLP delegation said it would not be satisfied by that, Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Omit Paragraph 1 Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Government Team said they were content with that if others were. The UDUP delegation said it would not be able to recommend the document to the remainder of its members if that amendment were made. It asked why it was necessary to reach agreement... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The leader of the UDUP delegation said that he had approved the proposed draft statement, and would be recommending it to his Party, but he was not in a position to commit others at this stage. 4. The Government Team asked whether this amendment was... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The first sentence of paragraph one was integral to the statement if it were to receive the approval of the UDUP delegation. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
DUP Issue a Statement Explaining Their Position Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The amendment proposed by the UDUP at the start of the meeting had not been discussed between the Party leaders and could not be accepted. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The UUP delegation said they were unhappy with the proposed removal of the first paragraph in its entirety. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The other proposed amendment regarding the agreement of Party leaders caused them some difficulty as their leader was not present, but they were prepared to go the extra mile and agree to it. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
SLDP Agree to the DUP Amendment Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The SDLP delegation said they did not agree. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Adjournment Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The Alliance delegation disagreed. The difficulty was that the Parties had approached the plenary on the basis of an agreement reached. It was important not to start negotiating again after reaching that agreement. Other agreements reached has not been... Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Secretary of State Judges That Parties Agree Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
The amendment was accepted by all the delegations Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Annex A Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
and a copy of the final statement is attached at Annex A. Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Consultation with the Irish Government and Additional Press Statement Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: At this point, the statement has been agreed by all four of the party delegations.] Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: No objection was made.] Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Request to Maintain Confidentiality Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Question Regarding Next Steps Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Business Committee Meet on Monday Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Sub-Committee to Meet on Monday Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
After discussion, Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
Thanks Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: The meeting adjourned.] Friday June 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[...] A Media Release was agreed – but, at Dr Paisley's suggestion, any suggestion of delegates' satisfaction with proceedings was deleted. Friday July 1992Committee: All-Party Negotiations
[Editor's Note: During this meeting, a 'Mr O'Malley' is minuted as asking questions on behalf of the Irish Government. He is not listed as a delegate to Strand 2, but we have shown him joining at this point to represent this.] Friday July 1992